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	Comments on: Teaching the Red Dot Right	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-35777</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-35777</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah, good point.

First, all that talking time was strictly &lt;em&gt;storytelling&lt;/em&gt; time.  No way any class outside of a college lecture hall would let me get away with &lt;em&gt;teaching&lt;/em&gt; that long.

The only objective here was that &quot;students will understand why graphing data on one dimension is sometimes insufficient, why sometimes two dimensions are necessary.&quot;

To that extent, the razzle-dazzle was essential.  They had to be clonked over the head with how easily that red dot hides amidst one-variable data but &lt;em&gt;pops&lt;/em&gt; in two.  That&#039;s all.

The real check for understanding (can you graph?  can you draw conclusions from your graphs?) happened with &lt;a href=&quot;/?p=454&quot;&gt;How I Met Your Mother&lt;/a&gt;.

Any improvements to propose on that one, by all means, let &#039;em fly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, good point.</p>
<p>First, all that talking time was strictly <em>storytelling</em> time.  No way any class outside of a college lecture hall would let me get away with <em>teaching</em> that long.</p>
<p>The only objective here was that &#8220;students will understand why graphing data on one dimension is sometimes insufficient, why sometimes two dimensions are necessary.&#8221;</p>
<p>To that extent, the razzle-dazzle was essential.  They had to be clonked over the head with how easily that red dot hides amidst one-variable data but <em>pops</em> in two.  That&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>The real check for understanding (can you graph?  can you draw conclusions from your graphs?) happened with <a href="/?p=454">How I Met Your Mother</a>.</p>
<p>Any improvements to propose on that one, by all means, let &#8217;em fly.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben Chun		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-35629</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Chun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 03:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-35629</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is a sweet lesson, for sure.  Great hook.  My question is, were you able to track how many kids fell off the clue train around the point where it pulled out of the poker hand station?  My worry mirrors yours: With so much teacher-lead direction toward a goal, it&#039;s inevitable that someone is getting dragged along a little faster than they can handle.  And if I&#039;m talking, it&#039;s harder to listen for the screams.

Now I&#039;m assuming you do a lot of &quot;checking for understanding&quot; in here, but I&#039;d be curious to know if you validate that externally.  Maybe that&#039;s a place the 2.0 crew would say you could keep your high-energy presentation but also collect more data (through clickers or whatever).  I don&#039;t think you need fancy toys to do it, but on my first reading of your lesson here, my questions are about how you did formative assessment.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a sweet lesson, for sure.  Great hook.  My question is, were you able to track how many kids fell off the clue train around the point where it pulled out of the poker hand station?  My worry mirrors yours: With so much teacher-lead direction toward a goal, it&#8217;s inevitable that someone is getting dragged along a little faster than they can handle.  And if I&#8217;m talking, it&#8217;s harder to listen for the screams.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m assuming you do a lot of &#8220;checking for understanding&#8221; in here, but I&#8217;d be curious to know if you validate that externally.  Maybe that&#8217;s a place the 2.0 crew would say you could keep your high-energy presentation but also collect more data (through clickers or whatever).  I don&#8217;t think you need fancy toys to do it, but on my first reading of your lesson here, my questions are about how you did formative assessment.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-29853</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 00:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-29853</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Shoot, man, you want me to admit my conflicted interests, you got it.  But I don&#039;t want to confuse graphic design with tech know-how.

I recently scanned a handout I found lying around – a gorgeous handout, clear, designed with intention, designed for understanding – which was handwritten.

It was far better than what the teachers make who don&#039;t know how to use a computer to keep their indents justified and whatnot.

All that to say, my enthusiasm with graphic design predates computers.  My assertion that, more than any other skill, high school graduates have no idea how to turn vast spreads of data (and nowadays you can&#039;t get data in smaller quantities) into an understandable picture, also stands apart from technology. 

Always welcome &#039;round here, &lt;strong&gt;Vlorbik&lt;/strong&gt;.  Always glad for the opportunity to clarify my stance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shoot, man, you want me to admit my conflicted interests, you got it.  But I don&#8217;t want to confuse graphic design with tech know-how.</p>
<p>I recently scanned a handout I found lying around – a gorgeous handout, clear, designed with intention, designed for understanding – which was handwritten.</p>
<p>It was far better than what the teachers make who don&#8217;t know how to use a computer to keep their indents justified and whatnot.</p>
<p>All that to say, my enthusiasm with graphic design predates computers.  My assertion that, more than any other skill, high school graduates have no idea how to turn vast spreads of data (and nowadays you can&#8217;t get data in smaller quantities) into an understandable picture, also stands apart from technology. </p>
<p>Always welcome &#8217;round here, <strong>Vlorbik</strong>.  Always glad for the opportunity to clarify my stance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: vlorbik		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-29839</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vlorbik]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-29839</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[you&#039;re doing amazing work here;
i hope it&#039;ll bring you a lot of attention.

but i&#039;m sure troubled by comments like
&quot;It&#039;s called Information Design and I&#039;m pretty sure it is the mathematical skill most lacking in our high school graduates.&quot;
.

your graphic design skills are very impressive
and your dedication to using &#039;em in creating
effective lessons even *more* impressive ...
*but* i -- and many another math-head --
would very quickly have lost interest and chosen
another playground if our teachers had
openly *confused* math with graphic design!

plenty o&#039; good math teachers can&#039;t work a computer
(or draw) very well at all and it&#039;s gonna stay that way.
obviously, at some level you understand this
very well--witness your gentle rebukes of the 2.0 crowd.

i promised here
/?p=339
to leave you alone for a while;
here&#039;s hoping it&#039;s been a long enough while
that you won&#039;t feel i&#039;m abusing your hospitality.
i just wish you&#039;d reconsider (what appears to be)
your conviction that *creating good looking documents*
is somehow a vital component of good teaching.

never mind being a good math *student*.
if i start grading math students on presentation,
may my right hand forget its cunning.

pretty soon now you&#039;ll probably quit this gig
and get far better paid than you are now
to *do* graphic design.  this will of course be
a loss for the math fraternity.  meanwhile,
i&#039;ll still be at it, barely legible handwriting and all.
&#038; with any luck, some of my students will be glad i did.

the &quot;burnout&quot; issue has come up from time to time
on this blog and you&#039;ve copped to the risk;
this isn&#039;t at all meant to accuse you
of insufficient dedication.  just, doggone it,
admit you&#039;re serving two masters or something.

yours in the struggle; yours in the faith.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re doing amazing work here;<br />
i hope it&#8217;ll bring you a lot of attention.</p>
<p>but i&#8217;m sure troubled by comments like<br />
&#8220;It&#8217;s called Information Design and I&#8217;m pretty sure it is the mathematical skill most lacking in our high school graduates.&#8221;<br />
.</p>
<p>your graphic design skills are very impressive<br />
and your dedication to using &#8217;em in creating<br />
effective lessons even *more* impressive &#8230;<br />
*but* i &#8212; and many another math-head &#8212;<br />
would very quickly have lost interest and chosen<br />
another playground if our teachers had<br />
openly *confused* math with graphic design!</p>
<p>plenty o&#8217; good math teachers can&#8217;t work a computer<br />
(or draw) very well at all and it&#8217;s gonna stay that way.<br />
obviously, at some level you understand this<br />
very well&#8211;witness your gentle rebukes of the 2.0 crowd.</p>
<p>i promised here<br />
<a href="/?p=339" rel="ugc">/?p=339</a><br />
to leave you alone for a while;<br />
here&#8217;s hoping it&#8217;s been a long enough while<br />
that you won&#8217;t feel i&#8217;m abusing your hospitality.<br />
i just wish you&#8217;d reconsider (what appears to be)<br />
your conviction that *creating good looking documents*<br />
is somehow a vital component of good teaching.</p>
<p>never mind being a good math *student*.<br />
if i start grading math students on presentation,<br />
may my right hand forget its cunning.</p>
<p>pretty soon now you&#8217;ll probably quit this gig<br />
and get far better paid than you are now<br />
to *do* graphic design.  this will of course be<br />
a loss for the math fraternity.  meanwhile,<br />
i&#8217;ll still be at it, barely legible handwriting and all.<br />
&amp; with any luck, some of my students will be glad i did.</p>
<p>the &#8220;burnout&#8221; issue has come up from time to time<br />
on this blog and you&#8217;ve copped to the risk;<br />
this isn&#8217;t at all meant to accuse you<br />
of insufficient dedication.  just, doggone it,<br />
admit you&#8217;re serving two masters or something.</p>
<p>yours in the struggle; yours in the faith.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Lehmann		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-29269</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Lehmann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 03:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-29269</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s a challenge, sure. Fortunately, in PA, they&#039;ve distilled the state standards down to the state anchors... basically, they&#039;ve showed their hands and told the schools what will and won&#039;t be on the test. 

It makes it easier. 

(But, again in full disclosure, we do a lot more than the state anchors... but probably a little less than all the state standards in math.) 

I&#039;m really lucky, I&#039;ve got amazing math teachers who are able to really combine concepts into some amazing projects so that the when kids do apply what they&#039;ve learned, they are doing it in powerful ways.

Also remember, project-based learning doesn&#039;t mean we never give quizzes... it means that the major assessments are projects, not just the minor ones. (Which is what I&#039;ve seen in other non-PBL schools.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a challenge, sure. Fortunately, in PA, they&#8217;ve distilled the state standards down to the state anchors&#8230; basically, they&#8217;ve showed their hands and told the schools what will and won&#8217;t be on the test. </p>
<p>It makes it easier. </p>
<p>(But, again in full disclosure, we do a lot more than the state anchors&#8230; but probably a little less than all the state standards in math.) </p>
<p>I&#8217;m really lucky, I&#8217;ve got amazing math teachers who are able to really combine concepts into some amazing projects so that the when kids do apply what they&#8217;ve learned, they are doing it in powerful ways.</p>
<p>Also remember, project-based learning doesn&#8217;t mean we never give quizzes&#8230; it means that the major assessments are projects, not just the minor ones. (Which is what I&#8217;ve seen in other non-PBL schools.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-28795</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-28795</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah, that&#039;s what I&#039;m looking for.  And, not to quibble, but pretty much any inquiry-based project (not just the School 2.0 variety) is gonna push past the hour I&#039;ve budgeted for this unit.

Do you find that you can hit all the state standards and still maintain your project-based stance at SLA?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m looking for.  And, not to quibble, but pretty much any inquiry-based project (not just the School 2.0 variety) is gonna push past the hour I&#8217;ve budgeted for this unit.</p>
<p>Do you find that you can hit all the state standards and still maintain your project-based stance at SLA?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Lehmann		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-28735</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Lehmann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-28735</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with Ken... 

Sure, you could have worked in presentation skills such that, after the kids were done, they created some kind of public presentation of their findings... in fact, why not still do that? See if one of the kids can get a Gaming Commission rep to do a conference call with the class (use Skype -- it&#039;s got 2.0 street cred.) 

Have the kids make a Google Preso of their findings or something so that the Gaming Commissioner can follow along, and then have the kids present it to that official for review and commentary. 

That&#039;ll give their hard work context and meaning by placing it back into the larger world.

But other than that, dude... great job.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Ken&#8230; </p>
<p>Sure, you could have worked in presentation skills such that, after the kids were done, they created some kind of public presentation of their findings&#8230; in fact, why not still do that? See if one of the kids can get a Gaming Commission rep to do a conference call with the class (use Skype &#8212; it&#8217;s got 2.0 street cred.) </p>
<p>Have the kids make a Google Preso of their findings or something so that the Gaming Commissioner can follow along, and then have the kids present it to that official for review and commentary. </p>
<p>That&#8217;ll give their hard work context and meaning by placing it back into the larger world.</p>
<p>But other than that, dude&#8230; great job.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Whatever I&#8217;m Getting Wrong		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-28618</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Whatever I&#8217;m Getting Wrong]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-28618</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] wonders if I&#039;m up to my usual School 2.0 provocation with that lesson plan back there, during which I asked the tech wizards for their help. Conflict for conflict’s sake is [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] wonders if I&#8217;m up to my usual School 2.0 provocation with that lesson plan back there, during which I asked the tech wizards for their help. Conflict for conflict’s sake is [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-28594</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-28594</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m serious on this one:  what do you mean by &#039;making this better&#039;?  

When I work with teachers, the conversation usually goes this way:

Teacher:  I want to do this lesson differently; you know, better.
Ken:  Okay, what do you want the students to know?
Teacher: Content
Ken:  Wait, I mean what skills do you want your students to improve?
Teacher:  Um...um..content, right?  
Ken:  You&#039;re not in a hurry to leave right now, are you???

For this lesson, is &#039;better&#039; less Dan and more student?  What skills do you want them to refine/enhance/master (oh, the horror!)?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m serious on this one:  what do you mean by &#8216;making this better&#8217;?  </p>
<p>When I work with teachers, the conversation usually goes this way:</p>
<p>Teacher:  I want to do this lesson differently; you know, better.<br />
Ken:  Okay, what do you want the students to know?<br />
Teacher: Content<br />
Ken:  Wait, I mean what skills do you want your students to improve?<br />
Teacher:  Um&#8230;um..content, right?<br />
Ken:  You&#8217;re not in a hurry to leave right now, are you???</p>
<p>For this lesson, is &#8216;better&#8217; less Dan and more student?  What skills do you want them to refine/enhance/master (oh, the horror!)?</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2007/teaching-the-red-dot-right/#comment-28540</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=452#comment-28540</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m more sincere than that.  This was a great lesson, somewhere among my year&#039;s best both in terms of measurable outcomes and that fuzzy/warm lightbulb-clicking-on feeling I experienced while leading it.

But I&#039;m discontent with something &quot;great.&quot;  I&#039;m interested in making this better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m more sincere than that.  This was a great lesson, somewhere among my year&#8217;s best both in terms of measurable outcomes and that fuzzy/warm lightbulb-clicking-on feeling I experienced while leading it.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m discontent with something &#8220;great.&#8221;  I&#8217;m interested in making this better.</p>
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