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	Comments on: Confronting My Own Irrelevance	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:40:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Hoffman		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-180341</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Hoffman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-180341</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you continue down the Rhee path, your only option will be to fire yourself.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you continue down the Rhee path, your only option will be to fire yourself.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gina L. Gwozdz		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-178837</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gina L. Gwozdz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-178837</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I use math every day because it&#039;s my job.  

My clients use math every day for many reasons, some of which include:

1.  They need to compute how much inventory they need to buy, so they can sell it (solving for &quot;x&quot;).

2.  They need the first derivative of their sales so they can predict their future (okay a little more advanced math, but if they don&#039;t know algebra how are they going to learn this?).

3.  They need to know algebra in order to compute the markup on their products.  To determine how much to price an item for, etc.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

My other clients, the ones who do not own a business, they use math every day too:

1.  When they decide who has a better job offer and they need to compare not only their wage, but also their benefits and of course, calculate their net paycheck.

2.  When they research the companies they wish to invest in because they&#039;ve learned not to trust someone who makes money selling them this product.

3.  When they shop for insurance and need to determine the probability of need for each coverage because they&#039;ve learned not to trust someone who makes money selling them this product.

4.  When they need to recarpet, retile, etc. the floor in their house.

5.  When they decide to buy a house, a car, etc. so they can determine if they are making a wise decision.

Our children need to learn math so they can become successful adults.  At the very least they need to know math so they don&#039;t have to worry about other people trying to take advantage of their innumeracy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use math every day because it&#8217;s my job.  </p>
<p>My clients use math every day for many reasons, some of which include:</p>
<p>1.  They need to compute how much inventory they need to buy, so they can sell it (solving for &#8220;x&#8221;).</p>
<p>2.  They need the first derivative of their sales so they can predict their future (okay a little more advanced math, but if they don&#8217;t know algebra how are they going to learn this?).</p>
<p>3.  They need to know algebra in order to compute the markup on their products.  To determine how much to price an item for, etc.</p>
<p>I could go on, but you get the idea.</p>
<p>My other clients, the ones who do not own a business, they use math every day too:</p>
<p>1.  When they decide who has a better job offer and they need to compare not only their wage, but also their benefits and of course, calculate their net paycheck.</p>
<p>2.  When they research the companies they wish to invest in because they&#8217;ve learned not to trust someone who makes money selling them this product.</p>
<p>3.  When they shop for insurance and need to determine the probability of need for each coverage because they&#8217;ve learned not to trust someone who makes money selling them this product.</p>
<p>4.  When they need to recarpet, retile, etc. the floor in their house.</p>
<p>5.  When they decide to buy a house, a car, etc. so they can determine if they are making a wise decision.</p>
<p>Our children need to learn math so they can become successful adults.  At the very least they need to know math so they don&#8217;t have to worry about other people trying to take advantage of their innumeracy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tracy W		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-178147</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tracy W]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-178147</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The more maths you can do, the more options it opens up later in life. Yes, plenty of people get through life and are successful without ever solving a quadratic equation. But on the other hand, plenty of people have had to give up on a chosen career because they didn&#039;t have the maths background necessary for it. And plenty of people change their minds between ages 14 and 20 about what they want to do for a living.  

Plus maths is pretty.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more maths you can do, the more options it opens up later in life. Yes, plenty of people get through life and are successful without ever solving a quadratic equation. But on the other hand, plenty of people have had to give up on a chosen career because they didn&#8217;t have the maths background necessary for it. And plenty of people change their minds between ages 14 and 20 about what they want to do for a living.  </p>
<p>Plus maths is pretty.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Greene		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-177766</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Greene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-177766</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just to clarify something I wrote, I actually do always play up my appreciation of the beauty of math, how it works, what it can do, and its living history when I am teaching.  What I don&#039;t try to do is hard sell that to the kids who are not buying.

Dina, I&#039;d love to get a copy of that study.  My email is dgreene AT dcp.org.

Jovan, your line is right on...  when they think they are good at it, they work harder.  We just have to convince them that they are good at it.  And to do that, we have to believe it - which, in all honesty, is not always as easy as it should be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify something I wrote, I actually do always play up my appreciation of the beauty of math, how it works, what it can do, and its living history when I am teaching.  What I don&#8217;t try to do is hard sell that to the kids who are not buying.</p>
<p>Dina, I&#8217;d love to get a copy of that study.  My email is dgreene AT dcp.org.</p>
<p>Jovan, your line is right on&#8230;  when they think they are good at it, they work harder.  We just have to convince them that they are good at it.  And to do that, we have to believe it &#8211; which, in all honesty, is not always as easy as it should be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dina		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-177694</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dina]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 01:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-177694</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As per Dan Greene&#039;s last paragraph:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7406521

I have the Child Development study itself if you&#039;re interested. 

And yeah, I get your delayed payoff dilemma. (Not so much of this reaching for relevance in E/LA, as you say.) Is there a way, then, maybe, to give kids a glimpse of that larger context for math-- the staggering tapestry? 

Give this a whirl. I don&#039;t dare suggest anything more since my functionality in math is nil. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_beauty]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As per Dan Greene&#8217;s last paragraph:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7406521" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7406521</a></p>
<p>I have the Child Development study itself if you&#8217;re interested. </p>
<p>And yeah, I get your delayed payoff dilemma. (Not so much of this reaching for relevance in E/LA, as you say.) Is there a way, then, maybe, to give kids a glimpse of that larger context for math&#8211; the staggering tapestry? </p>
<p>Give this a whirl. I don&#8217;t dare suggest anything more since my functionality in math is nil. </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_beauty" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_beauty</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Jovan		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-177486</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jovan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-177486</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Those are questions that I am forced to deal with regularly.

With my students I always bring it back to opportunity. Being able to solve for x or identify the y intercept or any of the other things we ask our students to do everyday simply separates them from the individuals who cannot do these things.

This separation between the &quot;cans&quot; and the &quot;can&#039;ts&quot; gives the &quot;cans&quot; access to more of the world.

Most of my students come from rough backgrounds and they all want to escape their neighborhood. 

Academics is the gateway for them. 

Some of my kids can follow my logic and really work to move forward...some do not.

I&#039;m still trying to figure out the motivation for those that do not.

Dan Greene&#039;s approach also works with my kids. Self perception is a huge motivator for my students. When they think they&#039;re good at something they work harder at it...so sometimes I move beyond the whole opportunity discussion to simple ego building.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are questions that I am forced to deal with regularly.</p>
<p>With my students I always bring it back to opportunity. Being able to solve for x or identify the y intercept or any of the other things we ask our students to do everyday simply separates them from the individuals who cannot do these things.</p>
<p>This separation between the &#8220;cans&#8221; and the &#8220;can&#8217;ts&#8221; gives the &#8220;cans&#8221; access to more of the world.</p>
<p>Most of my students come from rough backgrounds and they all want to escape their neighborhood. </p>
<p>Academics is the gateway for them. </p>
<p>Some of my kids can follow my logic and really work to move forward&#8230;some do not.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still trying to figure out the motivation for those that do not.</p>
<p>Dan Greene&#8217;s approach also works with my kids. Self perception is a huge motivator for my students. When they think they&#8217;re good at something they work harder at it&#8230;so sometimes I move beyond the whole opportunity discussion to simple ego building.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-177484</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-177484</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That last paragraph is really good stuff, Dan, thanks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last paragraph is really good stuff, Dan, thanks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Greene		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-177468</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Greene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-177468</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I gave up a long time ago on trying to sell kids on the joy/beauty/connections, etc. of learning math.  Short answer: it&#039;s something you need to be able to do right now in order to reach your other goals in life.  For those who are really interested, we talk more about the connections and applications.

My students&#039; self-confidence and motivation increases when they figure out that they can do something.  The larger picture of why they should be doing it doesn&#039;t matter as much to them.  If I can cheerlead a kid to pick your head up off the desk, try this problem with me (showing you what to do), try one with me standing here (to protect you), try some on your own - I&#039;ll come back... see - you got it!  That&#039;s terrific!  And do that day after day, even when it looks like no progress is being made, and the head is back down on the table, that kid will begin to understand her own potential and worth, and will start to buy-in.  

Kids know that learning math is important (because everyone has been bothering them about it for the last however many years).  So I don&#039;t harp on the importance of what they are doing; instead, I focus on showing them that they can do what they always thought they couldn&#039;t, that they are as smart and capable as anyone else.  When kids finally start to believe that, it&#039;s amazing how much they start to like math.  It&#039;s not the subject.. it&#039;s all self-perception.  And, ultimately, it gives them some measure of control over a chaotic world.  Being good at something means a lot when bad things are happening all around you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave up a long time ago on trying to sell kids on the joy/beauty/connections, etc. of learning math.  Short answer: it&#8217;s something you need to be able to do right now in order to reach your other goals in life.  For those who are really interested, we talk more about the connections and applications.</p>
<p>My students&#8217; self-confidence and motivation increases when they figure out that they can do something.  The larger picture of why they should be doing it doesn&#8217;t matter as much to them.  If I can cheerlead a kid to pick your head up off the desk, try this problem with me (showing you what to do), try one with me standing here (to protect you), try some on your own &#8211; I&#8217;ll come back&#8230; see &#8211; you got it!  That&#8217;s terrific!  And do that day after day, even when it looks like no progress is being made, and the head is back down on the table, that kid will begin to understand her own potential and worth, and will start to buy-in.  </p>
<p>Kids know that learning math is important (because everyone has been bothering them about it for the last however many years).  So I don&#8217;t harp on the importance of what they are doing; instead, I focus on showing them that they can do what they always thought they couldn&#8217;t, that they are as smart and capable as anyone else.  When kids finally start to believe that, it&#8217;s amazing how much they start to like math.  It&#8217;s not the subject.. it&#8217;s all self-perception.  And, ultimately, it gives them some measure of control over a chaotic world.  Being good at something means a lot when bad things are happening all around you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Using the tools &#171; Continuities		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-177447</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Using the tools &#171; Continuities]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-177447</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] solving for x the real skill we&#8217;re trying to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] solving for x the real skill we&#8217;re trying to [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: mathman6293		</title>
		<link>/2008/confronting-my-own-irrelevance/#comment-177446</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mathman6293]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1602#comment-177446</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I lived your experience last semester, teaching repeater students who clearly had  and still have bigger issues than passing Algebra I.  I have been teaching low level kids for the last five years but that class was the most difficult I have ever worked with at my school.  I have a sense that our schools are designed or equipped to educate these kids even though most teachers are dedicated and do the best that they can.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lived your experience last semester, teaching repeater students who clearly had  and still have bigger issues than passing Algebra I.  I have been teaching low level kids for the last five years but that class was the most difficult I have ever worked with at my school.  I have a sense that our schools are designed or equipped to educate these kids even though most teachers are dedicated and do the best that they can.</p>
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