Comments on: Make Sure Your Stick Is A Stick /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/ less helpful Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:46:23 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.2 By: Tracy W /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-128036 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 08:58:29 +0000 /?p=855#comment-128036 Thanks Dina for asking my question.

When I said “The trainee gets to define what is a positive reinforcer and what is a negative reinforcer, not the trainer.” I was saying what I believe to be true, regardless of what the trainer thinks, or how the classroom is set up. For example, I remember a teacher who would single out a kid and praise them in front of the classroom by comparing them favourably to the rest of the class. From memory, and of course I may have been missing some subtext, she intended this to be a reward. Of course, from our point of view the praise was a bad thing because of the reaction of our fellow classmates, so we learnt to avoid behaviour that resulted in being praised in front of the class. She was providing a negative reinforcement rather than the intended positive reinforcement.

]]> By: dan /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-127481 Mon, 07 Jul 2008 04:01:57 +0000 /?p=855#comment-127481 @Dina: I found you a friend.

]]> By: Dina /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-127222 Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:26:38 +0000 /?p=855#comment-127222 @Dan: well, yes and no. In the sense that the student is merely choosing to be uninvested in asparagus, then agreed, that’s not strictly student autonomy– it’s only resistance. (Deci’s got some interesting things to say about resistance not actually being autonomous.) But in the sense that a teacher might make active efforts to involve students in the evaluation of their behavior at the ground level, and mutually make the decisions on appropriate consequences– now *that’s* autonomy.

I’m playing around with the idea of having no universally defined consequences next year– only immediate conversations and relentless follow-up, where kids determine their own consequences. I like this rule of thumb I read somewhere: “You must feel it’s fair; and I have to be able to live with it.” We’ll see whether I am brave/stupid and thoughtful enough to actually implement this come fall.

Of course, I’m having trouble imagining this set up successfully in Catholic Pre-Cana, but that’s perhaps a can of fish I should put on the back burner.

@ Tracy: sorry. :) Yes, I’ve been banging autonomy theory/practice over Dan’s head for closing in on a year now. Try my blog for some background.

]]> By: Tracy W /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-127151 Sun, 06 Jul 2008 13:32:33 +0000 /?p=855#comment-127151 “The trainee gets to define what is a positive reinforcer and what is a negative reinforcer, not the trainer.”

*cough*student autonomy*cough*

Is there some history here I’m missing?

]]> By: dan /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-126711 Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:03:06 +0000 /?p=855#comment-126711 Well, not exactly the same thing, innit.

]]> By: Dina /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-126689 Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:11:19 +0000 /?p=855#comment-126689 “The trainee gets to define what is a positive reinforcer and what is a negative reinforcer, not the trainer.”

*cough*student autonomy*cough*

(…and Dina retreats back underneath her summer rock)

]]> By: Mark Barnes /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-126250 Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:53:29 +0000 /?p=855#comment-126250 Let me get this straight. You’re saying I can’t stand in front of my students and read my goals, objectives, procedures and types of evaluation?

Now, I’m going to have to re-assess my methods entirely.

]]> By: dy/dan » Blog Archive » Awesome /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-126023 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:28:58 +0000 /?p=855#comment-126023 […] Tracy W, on making sure your stick/carrot is really a stick/carrot: The [student] gets to define what is a positive reinforcer and what is a negative reinforcer, not the [teacher]. […]

]]> By: dan /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-125005 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:59:25 +0000 /?p=855#comment-125005 Oh, man, number one’s the truth. That’s awesome, succinct stuff.

w/r/t #2, the instruction at this PD for engaged couples was pretty solid. They should’ve made that it’s own reinforcer – like the teacher whose class is so satisfying, students don’t want to get tossed out – tallking that up, making sure that was as good as it could be.

This situation illustrates the difference between classroom management in an elective and in a required class.

]]> By: Tracy W /2008/make-sure-your-stick-is-a-stick/#comment-124994 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:25:06 +0000 /?p=855#comment-124994 Okay, I have two morals to the story:
1. The trainee gets to define what is a positive reinforcer and what is a negative reinforcer, not the trainer.
2. If there’s only one reward and any infraction loses that reward, then once someone’s lost the reward the trainer has lost any power to influence that person.

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