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	Comments on: On Nailing/Blowing Assessment	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		By: My SBG Journey &#171; Action-Reaction		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-261893</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[My SBG Journey &#171; Action-Reaction]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-261893</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] I was bummed when Regents exams scores stayed flat under my Dan-Meyer-inspired system, but the increase in student morale made it worth keeping. So I used it the following [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I was bummed when Regents exams scores stayed flat under my Dan-Meyer-inspired system, but the increase in student morale made it worth keeping. So I used it the following [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sarah		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-230871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 03:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-230871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://coxmathblog.wordpress.com&quot;/ rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David&lt;/a&gt; has me digging though old posts and reflecting on the past year.

I kept concept quizzes this year, and kept the clear delineation between skills. Did you end up switching to &quot;I&#039;ll tell you what&#039;s on this sheet but you need to figure out what you need to use on each problem&quot;? Any updates on how that went? Either here or over at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://coxmathblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/homework-assessment-and-differentiation-oh-my/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;current discussion&lt;/a&gt;. Thanks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://coxmathblog.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">David</a> has me digging though old posts and reflecting on the past year.</p>
<p>I kept concept quizzes this year, and kept the clear delineation between skills. Did you end up switching to &#8220;I&#8217;ll tell you what&#8217;s on this sheet but you need to figure out what you need to use on each problem&#8221;? Any updates on how that went? Either here or over at the <a href="http://coxmathblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/homework-assessment-and-differentiation-oh-my/" rel="nofollow">current discussion</a>. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TheInfamousJ		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-112376</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TheInfamousJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-112376</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[:: mulling over this one ::

My personal teaching philosophy is that the skills are a toolkit and, due in no small part to my own nightmare that was high school where I didn&#039;t realize I had to carry the skills forward and not just dump them, I try to teach my students in a cumulative manner. They have to decide on the mechanism for solving the problem using each of the skill pieces that we&#039;ve been reviewing.

If I were a math teacher, I&#039;d teach law of sines and law of cosines, but then would spend a lot of time in class on a triangle with two sides labeled and how to create the mechanism for solving the problem where the first step would be identifying which piece of the toolkit (law of sines or cosines?) should be used and the second piece would then be successful execution. I call it a &quot;game plan&quot;.

I think what I am going to try next year is concept quizzes as quizzes, with grade replacement. And then on my test it will be the (Bloom&#039;s taxonomy) evaluation piece of creating the correct game plan along with the proper execution of the individual pieces which the students should have taken ownership for learning, as there will be at least two if not more quizzes before a test.

I&#039;m not yet ready to give up tests. It is not that I like aggregation so much as the fact that the skills of chemistry require aggregation. In science, the ability to break down a larger problem into smaller, easily handled pieces (identifying variables to turn in to an experiment from a complex observation, for example) is at its very heart.

On the other hand, I&#039;ve seen an Alg 2 teacher&#039;s grade book (his desk is beside mine in the faculty workroom) and it does read in terms of chapters. So I completely see where you are coming from, Dan.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>:: mulling over this one ::</p>
<p>My personal teaching philosophy is that the skills are a toolkit and, due in no small part to my own nightmare that was high school where I didn&#8217;t realize I had to carry the skills forward and not just dump them, I try to teach my students in a cumulative manner. They have to decide on the mechanism for solving the problem using each of the skill pieces that we&#8217;ve been reviewing.</p>
<p>If I were a math teacher, I&#8217;d teach law of sines and law of cosines, but then would spend a lot of time in class on a triangle with two sides labeled and how to create the mechanism for solving the problem where the first step would be identifying which piece of the toolkit (law of sines or cosines?) should be used and the second piece would then be successful execution. I call it a &#8220;game plan&#8221;.</p>
<p>I think what I am going to try next year is concept quizzes as quizzes, with grade replacement. And then on my test it will be the (Bloom&#8217;s taxonomy) evaluation piece of creating the correct game plan along with the proper execution of the individual pieces which the students should have taken ownership for learning, as there will be at least two if not more quizzes before a test.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not yet ready to give up tests. It is not that I like aggregation so much as the fact that the skills of chemistry require aggregation. In science, the ability to break down a larger problem into smaller, easily handled pieces (identifying variables to turn in to an experiment from a complex observation, for example) is at its very heart.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I&#8217;ve seen an Alg 2 teacher&#8217;s grade book (his desk is beside mine in the faculty workroom) and it does read in terms of chapters. So I completely see where you are coming from, Dan.</p>
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		<title>
		By: IB a Math Teacher		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-99289</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IB a Math Teacher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 03:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-99289</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One way to assess what the students know is to just ask for a particular triangle, &quot;Is it more appropriate to use the Law of Sines&quot; or &quot;Law of Cosines&quot; to solve for x on the following triangle?&quot;

With it being between only two choices, you might have to have a few on there so you know that they understand what to use and when, but at least that would give you an indication that they know which to use. 

Then you can add problems to see if they know *how* to use the Laws.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One way to assess what the students know is to just ask for a particular triangle, &#8220;Is it more appropriate to use the Law of Sines&#8221; or &#8220;Law of Cosines&#8221; to solve for x on the following triangle?&#8221;</p>
<p>With it being between only two choices, you might have to have a few on there so you know that they understand what to use and when, but at least that would give you an indication that they know which to use. </p>
<p>Then you can add problems to see if they know *how* to use the Laws.</p>
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		By: Some Places To Visit On The Interweb &#171; Continuous Everywhere but Differentiable Nowhere		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-99265</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Some Places To Visit On The Interweb &#171; Continuous Everywhere but Differentiable Nowhere]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 02:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-99265</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] On Nailing/Blowing Assessment (dy/dan) [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] On Nailing/Blowing Assessment (dy/dan) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-96751</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-96751</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I do the same thing as you do with integrals (searching primitive functions). My pupils need to know 3 techniques. For each of these they get a problem and get the technique they need to use. Then there are 2 problems where they do not get the technique.

Furthermore I use your how math must assess idea. So i have 4 goals to test. One for each of the techniques and one for the mixed form (this is worth double the points).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do the same thing as you do with integrals (searching primitive functions). My pupils need to know 3 techniques. For each of these they get a problem and get the technique they need to use. Then there are 2 problems where they do not get the technique.</p>
<p>Furthermore I use your how math must assess idea. So i have 4 goals to test. One for each of the techniques and one for the mixed form (this is worth double the points).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frank N.		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-96600</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank N.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 12:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-96600</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with Brian.  You could make another concept/skill called &quot;Triangle Trig&quot; or something like that and have that be an additional question on your weekly assessments.  I could see an addition question like this for a variety of skills--a kind of umbrella question which pulls everything together and tests the ability to synthesize and apply.  You could still give each concept a name, which avoids the no-name issues previously mentioned.  And still, both you and the kids would know that they could crank out the Law of Sines, Law of Cosines, and right triangle trig, but that they can&#039;t figure out which rule to use when they aren&#039;t told.  Then you can hone in on THAT skill during remediation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Brian.  You could make another concept/skill called &#8220;Triangle Trig&#8221; or something like that and have that be an additional question on your weekly assessments.  I could see an addition question like this for a variety of skills&#8211;a kind of umbrella question which pulls everything together and tests the ability to synthesize and apply.  You could still give each concept a name, which avoids the no-name issues previously mentioned.  And still, both you and the kids would know that they could crank out the Law of Sines, Law of Cosines, and right triangle trig, but that they can&#8217;t figure out which rule to use when they aren&#8217;t told.  Then you can hone in on THAT skill during remediation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian Cormier		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-96586</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Cormier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 11:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-96586</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The way I see it, these are 3 separate skills:  using the Law of Sines, using the Law of Cosines and knowing which law to use for which problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I see it, these are 3 separate skills:  using the Law of Sines, using the Law of Cosines and knowing which law to use for which problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-96504</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 05:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-96504</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Alright, so on more problems than not, I&#039;ll give them the concept name.  If I write Similar Figures at the top of a complicated problem involving shapes that are similar in notation only, it isn&#039;t going to matter.  I mean, the tilde is there.

Still and all, this bugs me:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Johnny’s gotten a 5 on Law of Sines, but a 3 on Law of Cosines. Will he still be able to cross off concept 26?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Presumably, if Johnny has passed Law of Sines, he&#039;ll recognize it and not do it.  Presumably.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright, so on more problems than not, I&#8217;ll give them the concept name.  If I write Similar Figures at the top of a complicated problem involving shapes that are similar in notation only, it isn&#8217;t going to matter.  I mean, the tilde is there.</p>
<p>Still and all, this bugs me:</p>
<blockquote><p>Johnny’s gotten a 5 on Law of Sines, but a 3 on Law of Cosines. Will he still be able to cross off concept 26?</p></blockquote>
<p>Presumably, if Johnny has passed Law of Sines, he&#8217;ll recognize it and not do it.  Presumably.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sarah		</title>
		<link>/2008/on-nailingblowing-assessment/#comment-96497</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 05:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=796#comment-96497</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I love the idea of students not knowing which problems go with which concept--reviewing this week I&#039;ve heard way to many students say &quot;but I don&#039;t know what I&#039;m supposed to do&quot; if I don&#039;t tell them the concept before the problem.

Having the motivation for mastery intertwined with the assessment system seemed key in your original writeup. Next year, how will students test out of a concept? 

Johnny&#039;s gotten a 5 on Law of Sines, but a 3 on Law of Cosines. Will he still be able to cross off concept 26? Will he have to be able to label the problem as the concept? Will you still give the concept number on the top of your quizzes or not? 

(I&#039;ve adopted the concept quiz strategy for some of my classes this year and need to pull it off better next year. So these questions are one&#039;s I&#039;ll be trying to sort out too.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the idea of students not knowing which problems go with which concept&#8211;reviewing this week I&#8217;ve heard way to many students say &#8220;but I don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m supposed to do&#8221; if I don&#8217;t tell them the concept before the problem.</p>
<p>Having the motivation for mastery intertwined with the assessment system seemed key in your original writeup. Next year, how will students test out of a concept? </p>
<p>Johnny&#8217;s gotten a 5 on Law of Sines, but a 3 on Law of Cosines. Will he still be able to cross off concept 26? Will he have to be able to label the problem as the concept? Will you still give the concept number on the top of your quizzes or not? </p>
<p>(I&#8217;ve adopted the concept quiz strategy for some of my classes this year and need to pull it off better next year. So these questions are one&#8217;s I&#8217;ll be trying to sort out too.)</p>
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