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	Comments on: Resolving Two Tensions, Pt. 2: Success/Failure	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 03:43:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: philipc		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198509</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[philipc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 03:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198509</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dan,

Since you have mastered classroom management, how about videos of some of your typical class periods?

As a potential new teacher, I am eager to see how you do classroom management, from beginning to end of class.

If student privacy is an issue, how about video shot from back of classroom, and fuzzy-up any student faces?

I think your next calling is to teach the teachers!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>Since you have mastered classroom management, how about videos of some of your typical class periods?</p>
<p>As a potential new teacher, I am eager to see how you do classroom management, from beginning to end of class.</p>
<p>If student privacy is an issue, how about video shot from back of classroom, and fuzzy-up any student faces?</p>
<p>I think your next calling is to teach the teachers!</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198342</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198342</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dag. I&#039;m having a pretty tough time now distinguishing Jenny, Jenn, and now Jen.

Jenny has been around this blog since, like, day one; Jenn and I learned how to teach in the same UCD cohort; And I subscribe to Jen&#039;s blog though I can&#039;t remember why and I can&#039;t bring myself to unsubscribe &#039;cause, yeah, the writing&#039;s good but she also curses like a longshoreman and I dig that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dag. I&#8217;m having a pretty tough time now distinguishing Jenny, Jenn, and now Jen.</p>
<p>Jenny has been around this blog since, like, day one; Jenn and I learned how to teach in the same UCD cohort; And I subscribe to Jen&#8217;s blog though I can&#8217;t remember why and I can&#8217;t bring myself to unsubscribe &#8217;cause, yeah, the writing&#8217;s good but she also curses like a longshoreman and I dig that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Susan		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198193</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198193</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a 30+ year veteran who is now teaching students online, I can only say that I still get a kick out of kids.  Even online I think they are funny and challenging.  But to me, the real way that I make a difference is teaching teachers.  That&#039;s where my satifisfaction is the greatest because they are SO grateful, and you know that not only does it help the teacher, it helps their students.  I&#039;m not watching tv, or reading much or doing anything &quot;fun&quot; but I love the Internet and I love reading about teaching and teachers.  I find Dan absolutely inspspirational....gives me faith in the younguns!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a 30+ year veteran who is now teaching students online, I can only say that I still get a kick out of kids.  Even online I think they are funny and challenging.  But to me, the real way that I make a difference is teaching teachers.  That&#8217;s where my satifisfaction is the greatest because they are SO grateful, and you know that not only does it help the teacher, it helps their students.  I&#8217;m not watching tv, or reading much or doing anything &#8220;fun&#8221; but I love the Internet and I love reading about teaching and teachers.  I find Dan absolutely inspspirational&#8230;.gives me faith in the younguns!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Twitter Week 5 in Review &#124; Blog Junkie		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198157</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Twitter Week 5 in Review &#124; Blog Junkie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198157</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] to follow along to Betty Gilgoff&#8217;s blog.Â  I also took a side trip to Dan Meyer&#8217;s blog.Â  These posting had nothing in common, except to me.Â  The connection between them made plain the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] to follow along to Betty Gilgoff&#8217;s blog.Â  I also took a side trip to Dan Meyer&#8217;s blog.Â  These posting had nothing in common, except to me.Â  The connection between them made plain the [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jen		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198125</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198125</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If it&#039;s challenge and failure you want, there&#039;s always inner-city teaching. But I&#039;m a 2nd-year teacher who&#039;s still trying to do *anything* competently, so don&#039;t go by me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s challenge and failure you want, there&#8217;s always inner-city teaching. But I&#8217;m a 2nd-year teacher who&#8217;s still trying to do *anything* competently, so don&#8217;t go by me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@&lt;strong&gt;Jenny&lt;/strong&gt;, some of the most fun I&#039;ve via blogging and via face-to-face has been chatting with new teachers about what motivates them, what troubles them. Gotta wonder if there isn&#039;t something to that.

@&lt;strong&gt;Robert&lt;/strong&gt;, along those lines, I try not to assume that what motivates me to teach, motivates other people to teach.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<strong>Jenny</strong>, some of the most fun I&#8217;ve via blogging and via face-to-face has been chatting with new teachers about what motivates them, what troubles them. Gotta wonder if there isn&#8217;t something to that.</p>
<p>@<strong>Robert</strong>, along those lines, I try not to assume that what motivates me to teach, motivates other people to teach.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenny		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198076</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198076</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s a reason universities often require teachers to have 3 or more years of experience before they host student teachers and the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards requires you to be in your fourth year, at least, before you can go through the process. You really get a handle on things by that time.

I get the feeling of not being challenged and looking for that next mountain to climb. Luckily, at the elementary level I&#039;ve been able to change my role in my school to keep that energy. I&#039;ve taught fourth and fifth and looped with my students and now I&#039;m teaching first. It&#039;s kept me on my toes and that&#039;s been important to me. I felt like I was in a rut. You have to find what works for you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a reason universities often require teachers to have 3 or more years of experience before they host student teachers and the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards requires you to be in your fourth year, at least, before you can go through the process. You really get a handle on things by that time.</p>
<p>I get the feeling of not being challenged and looking for that next mountain to climb. Luckily, at the elementary level I&#8217;ve been able to change my role in my school to keep that energy. I&#8217;ve taught fourth and fifth and looped with my students and now I&#8217;m teaching first. It&#8217;s kept me on my toes and that&#8217;s been important to me. I felt like I was in a rut. You have to find what works for you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Jones		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198070</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198070</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Somewhere in this discussion we seem to have lost sight of the joy of teaching - the joy of spending time with young people.  At the end of the day that is what keeps me in teaching.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhere in this discussion we seem to have lost sight of the joy of teaching &#8211; the joy of spending time with young people.  At the end of the day that is what keeps me in teaching.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric Hoefler		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198030</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Hoefler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198030</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not be the person to be answering this, either, and this story doesn&#039;t have a happy ending.

I stayed in the classroom for nine years. Like you, Dan, the &quot;mechanics&quot; of the job were mostly under control somewhere around year four. I did new challenges to keep me through the second half of the decade, though.

About the time that I was feeling comfortable with the basics of what I was doing (but long before I felt fully competent ... a day which never arrived completely, btw), I found two new challenges.

The first was the National Writing Project: an association of teachers that challenged me to see myself as a professional within a larger group of professionals who were quite capable, thank you very much, of teaching each other how to become better at the job: specifically, better teachers of writing. I would guess that your blogging experiences, at least in part, served a similar function.

The second was that my school became a &quot;magnet&quot; school (sorta) for the fine arts. I was part of the team that worked on that transition and helped to design the humanities and creative writing programs. That took me from knowing how to manage and teach a mostly-successful English class to thinking about how to manage and teach two four-year programs (humanities and creative writing). That challenge kept me around for another five years.

When it became clear that the county wouldn&#039;t actually be supporting that initiative (even though the county created it), and that all our work and success with students would remain unfunded, under-supported, and eventually die, I decided not to die with it and left the classroom.

Not sure if there&#039;s anything to learn from all that or not. I&#039;ll leave it to the wiser and/or more experienced to discern.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not be the person to be answering this, either, and this story doesn&#8217;t have a happy ending.</p>
<p>I stayed in the classroom for nine years. Like you, Dan, the &#8220;mechanics&#8221; of the job were mostly under control somewhere around year four. I did new challenges to keep me through the second half of the decade, though.</p>
<p>About the time that I was feeling comfortable with the basics of what I was doing (but long before I felt fully competent &#8230; a day which never arrived completely, btw), I found two new challenges.</p>
<p>The first was the National Writing Project: an association of teachers that challenged me to see myself as a professional within a larger group of professionals who were quite capable, thank you very much, of teaching each other how to become better at the job: specifically, better teachers of writing. I would guess that your blogging experiences, at least in part, served a similar function.</p>
<p>The second was that my school became a &#8220;magnet&#8221; school (sorta) for the fine arts. I was part of the team that worked on that transition and helped to design the humanities and creative writing programs. That took me from knowing how to manage and teach a mostly-successful English class to thinking about how to manage and teach two four-year programs (humanities and creative writing). That challenge kept me around for another five years.</p>
<p>When it became clear that the county wouldn&#8217;t actually be supporting that initiative (even though the county created it), and that all our work and success with students would remain unfunded, under-supported, and eventually die, I decided not to die with it and left the classroom.</p>
<p>Not sure if there&#8217;s anything to learn from all that or not. I&#8217;ll leave it to the wiser and/or more experienced to discern.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2008/resolving-two-tensions-pt-2-successfailure/#comment-198027</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2060#comment-198027</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@&lt;strong&gt;Chris R.&lt;/strong&gt;, I cherrypicked classroom management as only one example of the sort of enduring challenge that used to propel my teaching but which I now lack. In a forgotten draft of this post, I included a year-by-year summary of those challenges:

&lt;strong&gt;Year 1&lt;/strong&gt;: Classroom Management / Meaningful Assessment / Engaging Curriculum
&lt;strong&gt;Year 2&lt;/strong&gt;: Classroom Management / Meaningful Assessment / Engaging Curriculum
&lt;strong&gt;Year 3&lt;/strong&gt;: Classroom Management / Visual Instruction / Engaging Curriculum
&lt;strong&gt;Year 4&lt;/strong&gt;: Visual Instruction
&lt;strong&gt;Year 5&lt;/strong&gt;: Um.

Again, not to say I hit those marks every single day, just that, intellectually, especially, those challenges no longer motivate me.

&lt;strong&gt;Kilian&lt;/strong&gt;, I don&#039;t buy a) that ed schools (or at least not the ed schools in my locus of experience) overemphasize classroom management (I&#039;m struggling to recall any emphasis at all), or b) that it&#039;s possible to underestimate the challenge of classroom management.

There is much, much higher fruit, yes, but no way a 23-yo urban educator will reach any of it if her kids are hacking away at the ladder beneath her.

And sucks about the degree to which you&#039;re experiencing buyer&#039;s remorse (whatever degree that is). I&#039;m sure you anticipated it.

And, for whatever it&#039;s worth, while several people have pointed out the joys of a job that lets you make solid, incremental, yearly progress (cf. &lt;strong&gt;Jeri&lt;/strong&gt;) while maintaining a home life (cf. &lt;strong&gt;Nancy&lt;/strong&gt;) and summers off (cf. my old colleague at Asilomar), no one has offered me a compelling challenge for the second half of the first decade teaching. I can think of several in education, though outside the classroom, but none come to mind in my current setup.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<strong>Chris R.</strong>, I cherrypicked classroom management as only one example of the sort of enduring challenge that used to propel my teaching but which I now lack. In a forgotten draft of this post, I included a year-by-year summary of those challenges:</p>
<p><strong>Year 1</strong>: Classroom Management / Meaningful Assessment / Engaging Curriculum<br />
<strong>Year 2</strong>: Classroom Management / Meaningful Assessment / Engaging Curriculum<br />
<strong>Year 3</strong>: Classroom Management / Visual Instruction / Engaging Curriculum<br />
<strong>Year 4</strong>: Visual Instruction<br />
<strong>Year 5</strong>: Um.</p>
<p>Again, not to say I hit those marks every single day, just that, intellectually, especially, those challenges no longer motivate me.</p>
<p><strong>Kilian</strong>, I don&#8217;t buy a) that ed schools (or at least not the ed schools in my locus of experience) overemphasize classroom management (I&#8217;m struggling to recall any emphasis at all), or b) that it&#8217;s possible to underestimate the challenge of classroom management.</p>
<p>There is much, much higher fruit, yes, but no way a 23-yo urban educator will reach any of it if her kids are hacking away at the ladder beneath her.</p>
<p>And sucks about the degree to which you&#8217;re experiencing buyer&#8217;s remorse (whatever degree that is). I&#8217;m sure you anticipated it.</p>
<p>And, for whatever it&#8217;s worth, while several people have pointed out the joys of a job that lets you make solid, incremental, yearly progress (cf. <strong>Jeri</strong>) while maintaining a home life (cf. <strong>Nancy</strong>) and summers off (cf. my old colleague at Asilomar), no one has offered me a compelling challenge for the second half of the first decade teaching. I can think of several in education, though outside the classroom, but none come to mind in my current setup.</p>
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