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	Comments on: Stop Giving Me These Kids	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		<title>
		By: links for 2009-04-18 &#124; SeÃ±orita Murrell		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-220083</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[links for 2009-04-18 &#124; SeÃ±orita Murrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-220083</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] dy/dan Â» Blog Archive Â» Stop Giving Me These Kids (tags: assessment) [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] dy/dan Â» Blog Archive Â» Stop Giving Me These Kids (tags: assessment) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Teacher&#8217;s Dilemma &#124; &francis;		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-200200</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Teacher&#8217;s Dilemma &#124; &francis;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-200200</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] was reading this post and this dilemma arose. As the school year opened, our principal asked us to consider a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] was reading this post and this dilemma arose. As the school year opened, our principal asked us to consider a [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sarah		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-162944</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-162944</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[KarenJan, there are moments, sometimes days. Here joy is found on an individual level and killed at a group level. The trick is to find as many ways to create it as possible.

Thanks for highlighting Gary&#039;s strategy. I&#039;ll see how I can bring it in. (Though an incomplete would probably still mean a &quot;No.&quot; Way to boost morale.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KarenJan, there are moments, sometimes days. Here joy is found on an individual level and killed at a group level. The trick is to find as many ways to create it as possible.</p>
<p>Thanks for highlighting Gary&#8217;s strategy. I&#8217;ll see how I can bring it in. (Though an incomplete would probably still mean a &#8220;No.&#8221; Way to boost morale.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: KarenJan		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-162896</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KarenJan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-162896</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sarah,
Is there any joy in your school? Do kids like going there? 
How punitive.
Somebody needs to read The Homework Myth by Kohn.

(and adopt Gary Stager&#039;s approach to grading - it&#039;s either an A or an incomplete).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah,<br />
Is there any joy in your school? Do kids like going there?<br />
How punitive.<br />
Somebody needs to read The Homework Myth by Kohn.</p>
<p>(and adopt Gary Stager&#8217;s approach to grading &#8211; it&#8217;s either an A or an incomplete).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sarah		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-162879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-162879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jason, it really is a kill the mood policy. We have to sign every student&#039;s yellow card at the beginning of class. They get a &quot;Yes&quot; if a) they&#039;re on time and b) have their homework. Miss one of those and you get a &quot;No.&quot; 

A single &quot;No&quot; through the 7 periods of the day means detention. And if I assign 10 &quot;No&quot;s during the day, I have to stay after too. 

I&#039;m hoping that if I have homework assigned two class periods before it&#039;s due, it might help. The dreaded finish the steps you&#039;ve been working on in class sure hasn&#039;t been perfect. (For one, I want them to actually do the work in class...)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, it really is a kill the mood policy. We have to sign every student&#8217;s yellow card at the beginning of class. They get a &#8220;Yes&#8221; if a) they&#8217;re on time and b) have their homework. Miss one of those and you get a &#8220;No.&#8221; </p>
<p>A single &#8220;No&#8221; through the 7 periods of the day means detention. And if I assign 10 &#8220;No&#8221;s during the day, I have to stay after too. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping that if I have homework assigned two class periods before it&#8217;s due, it might help. The dreaded finish the steps you&#8217;ve been working on in class sure hasn&#8217;t been perfect. (For one, I want them to actually do the work in class&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate F		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-162799</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate F]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-162799</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[-Dan- Another AMEN!  We have one teacher who insists on placing students based on their grades in her classes.  Biggest problem: She takes off points if their heading starts too far away from the right-hand edge of the paper, if they clearly combine steps, if they don&#039;t arrange their paper in two columns, etc.  Don&#039;t get me wrong, work habits are important, but we should be giving a separate grade for work habits.  An academic grade should only measure the student&#039;s academic performance.  (I&#039;m still a fence sitter regarding the scenario you gave.  I&#039;m not sure the entire grade should be based on one assessment, but I am in favor of basing a grade solely upon assessments.)

-Ben- I work in a district that mandates grade category weights.  In 6-8 Math and Lang. Arts, we are 10% HW, 40% CW and 50% Tests/Quizzes.  At first, many of the teachers balked, believing that students would NEVER do homework if they knew it was only worth 10% of the grade.  (6 years later, I still have kids that point out on the first day of school that it is possible to earn an A without EVER completing homework.  I use that to discuss the difference between possible and probable.)  Really, it depends on the teacher.  I have no problem getting students to complete HW because I put at least one problem from HW on each test and quiz.  Students know that it is in their best interest to complete the assignments and pay attention while we correct the work.  They ask good questions and actually study from their work and notes.  (And yes...these are sixth graders.)  By the end of first quarter, I have 95-98% turn-in rates and students are surprised by how well they&#039;re doing on tests.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-Dan- Another AMEN!  We have one teacher who insists on placing students based on their grades in her classes.  Biggest problem: She takes off points if their heading starts too far away from the right-hand edge of the paper, if they clearly combine steps, if they don&#8217;t arrange their paper in two columns, etc.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, work habits are important, but we should be giving a separate grade for work habits.  An academic grade should only measure the student&#8217;s academic performance.  (I&#8217;m still a fence sitter regarding the scenario you gave.  I&#8217;m not sure the entire grade should be based on one assessment, but I am in favor of basing a grade solely upon assessments.)</p>
<p>-Ben- I work in a district that mandates grade category weights.  In 6-8 Math and Lang. Arts, we are 10% HW, 40% CW and 50% Tests/Quizzes.  At first, many of the teachers balked, believing that students would NEVER do homework if they knew it was only worth 10% of the grade.  (6 years later, I still have kids that point out on the first day of school that it is possible to earn an A without EVER completing homework.  I use that to discuss the difference between possible and probable.)  Really, it depends on the teacher.  I have no problem getting students to complete HW because I put at least one problem from HW on each test and quiz.  Students know that it is in their best interest to complete the assignments and pay attention while we correct the work.  They ask good questions and actually study from their work and notes.  (And yes&#8230;these are sixth graders.)  By the end of first quarter, I have 95-98% turn-in rates and students are surprised by how well they&#8217;re doing on tests.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Dyer		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-162773</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Dyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 05:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-162773</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sarah, could you do the homework collection at the end of class somehow then? (Still not exactly solving your problems, I know.)

(I give 15% credit for homework, as per our department policy. I&#039;m ok with it. It is high enough to get the want-points effect but not so large as to be overwhelming the grade.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah, could you do the homework collection at the end of class somehow then? (Still not exactly solving your problems, I know.)</p>
<p>(I give 15% credit for homework, as per our department policy. I&#8217;m ok with it. It is high enough to get the want-points effect but not so large as to be overwhelming the grade.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sarah		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-162752</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 03:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-162752</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tangent to the conversation going on, sorry I didn&#039;t to the comments sooner.

While I don&#039;t have the kids who know the material and just shouldn&#039;t be here, I&#039;m still struggling to avoid fallout from the homework monster.

Teachers are being told we have to assign homework this year. Most haven&#039;t in the past, so students are not in the habit of doing anything. We&#039;ve also got a new program (sicker cousin to your &lt;a href=&quot;/?p=349&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;tardy policy&lt;/a&gt;) where students who don&#039;t do their homework have 2 hours of detention that day. 

I do &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; want to become that teacher.  Assigning detention first thing in the class period kills the mood for class. They don&#039;t want to do anything. And then struggle more next time. (But we&#039;re unorganized enough that they haven&#039;t had to go to detention yet, so I haven&#039;t been able to pull them out for special tutoring.) 

No solutions here. I want the work to be meaningful. I don&#039;t want to incorporate homework into the grade. But mostly, I don&#039;t want to punish everyone over and over again.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tangent to the conversation going on, sorry I didn&#8217;t to the comments sooner.</p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t have the kids who know the material and just shouldn&#8217;t be here, I&#8217;m still struggling to avoid fallout from the homework monster.</p>
<p>Teachers are being told we have to assign homework this year. Most haven&#8217;t in the past, so students are not in the habit of doing anything. We&#8217;ve also got a new program (sicker cousin to your <a href="/?p=349" rel="nofollow">tardy policy</a>) where students who don&#8217;t do their homework have 2 hours of detention that day. </p>
<p>I do <b>not</b> want to become that teacher.  Assigning detention first thing in the class period kills the mood for class. They don&#8217;t want to do anything. And then struggle more next time. (But we&#8217;re unorganized enough that they haven&#8217;t had to go to detention yet, so I haven&#8217;t been able to pull them out for special tutoring.) </p>
<p>No solutions here. I want the work to be meaningful. I don&#8217;t want to incorporate homework into the grade. But mostly, I don&#8217;t want to punish everyone over and over again.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Dyer		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-162742</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Dyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-162742</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Okay, fair enough. 

I&#039;m guessing the hand-raisers at your school didn&#039;t take the question purely abstractly, though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, fair enough. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing the hand-raisers at your school didn&#8217;t take the question purely abstractly, though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2008/stop-giving-me-these-kids/#comment-162720</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1263#comment-162720</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The scenario assumes that the final essay assessed the &lt;s&gt;unicorn&#039;s&lt;/s&gt; student&#039;s competence perfectly and across all standards.

And I realize you can&#039;t outfit a DeLorean to travel back in time, but you &lt;em&gt;still&lt;/em&gt; have to assume the premise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The scenario assumes that the final essay assessed the <s>unicorn&#8217;s</s> student&#8217;s competence perfectly and across all standards.</p>
<p>And I realize you can&#8217;t outfit a DeLorean to travel back in time, but you <em>still</em> have to assume the premise.</p>
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