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	Comments on: Who Do We Think We Are?	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		By: Be Cool to the Camera Guy, Part Two &#171; Off the Tenure Track		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-150541</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Be Cool to the Camera Guy, Part Two &#171; Off the Tenure Track]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-150541</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] work paid through wages and timesheets, there&#8217;s no chance in hell Camera Guy can feel self-righteous or spiritually fullfilled about school photography the way some feel about their work. In short, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] work paid through wages and timesheets, there&#8217;s no chance in hell Camera Guy can feel self-righteous or spiritually fullfilled about school photography the way some feel about their work. In short, [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gerry		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-91933</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 18:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-91933</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A noble profession, a bold statement indeed but one that some believe to be true. Doesn&#039;t make us lean one way or the other. We still make data driven decisions, study the research and we are inspired by knowing what we do can and will make a difference.
Those who are along just for the&quot;platitudes&quot; won&#039;t last. They need both to be effective and that won&#039;t happen, too much work.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A noble profession, a bold statement indeed but one that some believe to be true. Doesn&#8217;t make us lean one way or the other. We still make data driven decisions, study the research and we are inspired by knowing what we do can and will make a difference.<br />
Those who are along just for the&#8221;platitudes&#8221; won&#8217;t last. They need both to be effective and that won&#8217;t happen, too much work.</p>
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		<title>
		By: True or False: Teaching is a Noble Profession &#171; Continuous Everywhere but Differentiable Nowhere		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-88033</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[True or False: Teaching is a Noble Profession &#171; Continuous Everywhere but Differentiable Nowhere]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-88033</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] by the US News and World Report that stated teaching was &#8220;overrated.&#8221; (See here and here to get familiar with the arguments.) Much of the writing deals with tenure, the concept of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] by the US News and World Report that stated teaching was &#8220;overrated.&#8221; (See here and here to get familiar with the arguments.) Much of the writing deals with tenure, the concept of [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sarah		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-87353</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-87353</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In a slightly different twist than normal, I had a senior who&#039;s no longer in my class come by my room this week. I asked what she&#039;s thinking about doing next. &quot;A cop. And I&#039;&#039;ll get to work summers, unlike you. Ain&#039;t it true that you don&#039;t work during summer?&quot;

It was my first time hearing the suggestion that teachers don&#039;t work during the summer and would be jealous of those who do. I think she was indicating money instead of professionalism, but it&#039;s intrigued me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a slightly different twist than normal, I had a senior who&#8217;s no longer in my class come by my room this week. I asked what she&#8217;s thinking about doing next. &#8220;A cop. And I&#8221;ll get to work summers, unlike you. Ain&#8217;t it true that you don&#8217;t work during summer?&#8221;</p>
<p>It was my first time hearing the suggestion that teachers don&#8217;t work during the summer and would be jealous of those who do. I think she was indicating money instead of professionalism, but it&#8217;s intrigued me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dan		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-87111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-87111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I figured you were up to the task, &lt;strong&gt;Greg&lt;/strong&gt;.  See, the funny thing with your &lt;em&gt;writing&lt;/em&gt; is how heavily you emphasize the inspiration, intangible difference-making aspects of teaching, while in your &lt;em&gt;practice&lt;/em&gt;, I know you to be well-versed in data-based decision making (with your &lt;a href=&quot;/?p=200&quot;&gt;dashboards&lt;/a&gt;)_

Your skill as an educator depends on both and yet your writing leans heavily to one side of the dichotomy.  You aren&#039;t alone in this.  I realize &quot;responsible data collection&quot; isn&#039;t a sexy writing prompt but I have to believe a little attention to it would go a long way with this crowd.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I figured you were up to the task, <strong>Greg</strong>.  See, the funny thing with your <em>writing</em> is how heavily you emphasize the inspiration, intangible difference-making aspects of teaching, while in your <em>practice</em>, I know you to be well-versed in data-based decision making (with your <a href="/?p=200">dashboards</a>).</p>
<p>Your skill as an educator depends on both and yet your writing leans heavily to one side of the dichotomy.  You aren&#8217;t alone in this.  I realize &#8220;responsible data collection&#8221; isn&#8217;t a sexy writing prompt but I have to believe a little attention to it would go a long way with this crowd.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rebecca		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-86830</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rebecca]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-86830</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is so interesting to read teachers&#039; perspectives on this issue of professionalism. There is a parallel in the world of School Psychology in public education. There are some SPs who should have been fired many many years ago and everyone is just waiting for them to retire. Yet with the Union contract, they stay, and drag our profession&#039;s name through the mud. I understand there is a shortage of SPs and teachers, but keeping ones who are clearly ineffective and unprofessional seems ethically wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is so interesting to read teachers&#8217; perspectives on this issue of professionalism. There is a parallel in the world of School Psychology in public education. There are some SPs who should have been fired many many years ago and everyone is just waiting for them to retire. Yet with the Union contract, they stay, and drag our profession&#8217;s name through the mud. I understand there is a shortage of SPs and teachers, but keeping ones who are clearly ineffective and unprofessional seems ethically wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Farr		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-86679</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Farr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-86679</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dan:  Scientist, Attorney, Doctor...Thief, Rapist, Murderer...it&#039;s all about CHOICES.

My job is make it possible for students to have some control over their future and to - hopefully - make wise, informed choices.

Who do I think I am?

An enabler, an encourager, a person who makes a difference.  Do I need anyone&#039;s praise? No.  Am I professional enough to take criticism? Yes, even from you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan:  Scientist, Attorney, Doctor&#8230;Thief, Rapist, Murderer&#8230;it&#8217;s all about CHOICES.</p>
<p>My job is make it possible for students to have some control over their future and to &#8211; hopefully &#8211; make wise, informed choices.</p>
<p>Who do I think I am?</p>
<p>An enabler, an encourager, a person who makes a difference.  Do I need anyone&#8217;s praise? No.  Am I professional enough to take criticism? Yes, even from you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clint Hamada		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-86329</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clint Hamada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-86329</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Eric: A good distinction, and one that I agree with. I was referring to (quite poorly, now that I read it again) the &quot;poems and platitudes&quot;. It is imperative that teachers are evaluated by other teachers or administrators who are themselves professional in their expectations and critiques, and that those teachers receive praise and criticism with similar reactions: this is an opportunity for me to improve.

Can you imagine the teacher&#039;s-lounge banter that would ensue if a neutral third party came in and gave honest, constructive criticism to some of your most-tenured teachers?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Eric: A good distinction, and one that I agree with. I was referring to (quite poorly, now that I read it again) the &#8220;poems and platitudes&#8221;. It is imperative that teachers are evaluated by other teachers or administrators who are themselves professional in their expectations and critiques, and that those teachers receive praise and criticism with similar reactions: this is an opportunity for me to improve.</p>
<p>Can you imagine the teacher&#8217;s-lounge banter that would ensue if a neutral third party came in and gave honest, constructive criticism to some of your most-tenured teachers?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric Hoefler		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-86318</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Hoefler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-86318</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Clint: While I strongly agree with #2, I think there&#039;s more to say about #1.

On the surface, your statement seems true enough, but really it opens up a larger issue: the lack of professional standards for educators based on an array of factors (not solely on student outcomes).

I would disagree that &quot;a professional will do his/her job regardless&quot; of whether or not he/she receives feedback. A volunteer, a martyr, a saint, or a ridiculously-overpaid worker will do his/her job regardless of feedback (or consequence), but a professional would insist on professional standards of &lt;em&gt;practice&lt;/em&gt; and would want to be evaluated against those standards by others who are &lt;em&gt;well-respected in the field&lt;/em&gt;. Otherwise, how does a professional assess his/her professional skill and thereby advance? Advancement in a chosen field is a key objective for any professional.

I think this is a major point for Dan (to put words in his mouth, sorry): teachers shouldn&#039;t get to feel good about themselves simply because they care a lot, work hard, and do their job regardless of feedback. The danger is that teachers can be ineffective (or worse) and still care a lot and work hard and not need (or want) feedback (i.e. critique).

Of course, critique must be of the kind that matters (as your #2 implies): continuation in the profession must hinge upon it. Which means the critique must be coming from someone skilled in the profession (ahem) and must be based upon more than three hour-long &quot;observations.&quot; And that just opens up all sorts of bags full of wriggly things ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Clint: While I strongly agree with #2, I think there&#8217;s more to say about #1.</p>
<p>On the surface, your statement seems true enough, but really it opens up a larger issue: the lack of professional standards for educators based on an array of factors (not solely on student outcomes).</p>
<p>I would disagree that &#8220;a professional will do his/her job regardless&#8221; of whether or not he/she receives feedback. A volunteer, a martyr, a saint, or a ridiculously-overpaid worker will do his/her job regardless of feedback (or consequence), but a professional would insist on professional standards of <em>practice</em> and would want to be evaluated against those standards by others who are <em>well-respected in the field</em>. Otherwise, how does a professional assess his/her professional skill and thereby advance? Advancement in a chosen field is a key objective for any professional.</p>
<p>I think this is a major point for Dan (to put words in his mouth, sorry): teachers shouldn&#8217;t get to feel good about themselves simply because they care a lot, work hard, and do their job regardless of feedback. The danger is that teachers can be ineffective (or worse) and still care a lot and work hard and not need (or want) feedback (i.e. critique).</p>
<p>Of course, critique must be of the kind that matters (as your #2 implies): continuation in the profession must hinge upon it. Which means the critique must be coming from someone skilled in the profession (ahem) and must be based upon more than three hour-long &#8220;observations.&#8221; And that just opens up all sorts of bags full of wriggly things &#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clint Hamada		</title>
		<link>/2008/who-do-we-think-we-are/#comment-86313</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clint Hamada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=750#comment-86313</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A couple of things running through my mind after reading (and re-reading) this post and all the comments:

1. If you want to feel good about yourself as a teacher, then do a good job. Engage, challenge and respect your students. While it is nice to hear from others that you are doing a good job, a true professional will do his/her job regardless. I don&#039;t want to hear from other teachers how great I am; I want to see proof of my professionalism in the acievements of my students.

2. The concept of tenure, to a large extent, teachers to become complacent, resistant of change, resistant of progress. Remove tenure, remove the restrictive nature of steps-and-columns, and allow teachers to negotiate aspects of their remuneration. Then let&#039;s see how long laggards (with respect to technology, constructivism, connectivism, and most other -isms associated with good teaching) stay around. I&#039;m liberal most ways but a competitive market is good in this case.

3. I left my job teaching in SoCal in August 2000, partly because I needed a change and partly because I didn&#039;t feel that I could side with my co-workers (who were threatening to strike) or with my district (by crossing the impending picket line). In the end, it didn&#039;t matter since the grievance was settled with a minor (like, $500/year minor) increase in pay. I&#039;m glad I left and I&#039;ll never go back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of things running through my mind after reading (and re-reading) this post and all the comments:</p>
<p>1. If you want to feel good about yourself as a teacher, then do a good job. Engage, challenge and respect your students. While it is nice to hear from others that you are doing a good job, a true professional will do his/her job regardless. I don&#8217;t want to hear from other teachers how great I am; I want to see proof of my professionalism in the acievements of my students.</p>
<p>2. The concept of tenure, to a large extent, teachers to become complacent, resistant of change, resistant of progress. Remove tenure, remove the restrictive nature of steps-and-columns, and allow teachers to negotiate aspects of their remuneration. Then let&#8217;s see how long laggards (with respect to technology, constructivism, connectivism, and most other -isms associated with good teaching) stay around. I&#8217;m liberal most ways but a competitive market is good in this case.</p>
<p>3. I left my job teaching in SoCal in August 2000, partly because I needed a change and partly because I didn&#8217;t feel that I could side with my co-workers (who were threatening to strike) or with my district (by crossing the impending picket line). In the end, it didn&#8217;t matter since the grievance was settled with a minor (like, $500/year minor) increase in pay. I&#8217;m glad I left and I&#8217;ll never go back.</p>
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