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	<title>
	Comments on: What Can You Do With This: Club Soda	</title>
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	<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/</link>
	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:57:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242132</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242132</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@&lt;strong&gt;Northrup&lt;/strong&gt;, complicated, fun, though the &lt;em&gt;discussion&lt;/em&gt; is as far as I would feel confident taking it. (ie. &quot;what variables matter here?&quot;, &quot;what happens when you use a wider glass?&quot; etc.)

@&lt;strong&gt;Tom&lt;/strong&gt; fun stuff. But seriously, let&#039;s unpack the ellipsis. How &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; we put that question to a class, aiming at clarity and concision? I&#039;m thinking, &quot;if you fill the club soda up to the 6 cm marker, how high will the drink go after you add the cranberry juice?&quot; Which I dig only because it&#039;d be fun to talk about the obvious wrong answer.

@&lt;strong&gt;Sue&lt;/strong&gt;, I think that&#039;s what Jason means when he suggests a geometric solution, though California certainly doesn&#039;t include analytic geometry of that rigor in its standards.

PS. 16.5 cm is extremely accurate, keeping in mind that we start measuring the soda 3 cm up the scale. &lt;a href=&quot;/wp-content/uploads/090721_9full.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here is the answer photo&lt;/a&gt;. (Does it go without saying that WCYDWT media-based questioning is better when you have &quot;answer media&quot; that students can contrast with their own work?)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<strong>Northrup</strong>, complicated, fun, though the <em>discussion</em> is as far as I would feel confident taking it. (ie. &#8220;what variables matter here?&#8221;, &#8220;what happens when you use a wider glass?&#8221; etc.)</p>
<p>@<strong>Tom</strong> fun stuff. But seriously, let&#8217;s unpack the ellipsis. How <em>do</em> we put that question to a class, aiming at clarity and concision? I&#8217;m thinking, &#8220;if you fill the club soda up to the 6 cm marker, how high will the drink go after you add the cranberry juice?&#8221; Which I dig only because it&#8217;d be fun to talk about the obvious wrong answer.</p>
<p>@<strong>Sue</strong>, I think that&#8217;s what Jason means when he suggests a geometric solution, though California certainly doesn&#8217;t include analytic geometry of that rigor in its standards.</p>
<p>PS. 16.5 cm is extremely accurate, keeping in mind that we start measuring the soda 3 cm up the scale. <a href="/wp-content/uploads/090721_9full.jpg" rel="nofollow">Here is the answer photo</a>. (Does it go without saying that WCYDWT media-based questioning is better when you have &#8220;answer media&#8221; that students can contrast with their own work?)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom McDougal		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242121</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom McDougal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242121</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My wife used to drink a combo of club soda and cranberry juice, and a favorite glass of hers was roughly a cone, like the one in the picture. One day while mixing her this drink I wondered: If she wants half cranberry, half soda...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife used to drink a combo of club soda and cranberry juice, and a favorite glass of hers was roughly a cone, like the one in the picture. One day while mixing her this drink I wondered: If she wants half cranberry, half soda&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Dyer		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Dyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Getting the wacky curved glasses out would indeed make an interesting calculus problem, especially with the students figuring out an equation that matches the curve in the first place.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting the wacky curved glasses out would indeed make an interesting calculus problem, especially with the students figuring out an equation that matches the curve in the first place.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Northrup		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242117</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Northrup]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242117</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Try and measure the depth of the disturbed water while pouring (meaning how deep is the water visually disrupted/no longer perfectly clear).  The goal can be to predict what will happen with a larger experiment at the end of class that they won&#039;t be able to recreate at their desk.  To be accurate and scientific students would need to take a picture or freeze frame a video and measure the distance.  They would vary the height the water is poured from, the angle of the can(which controls flow), and maybe the time to pour.

eh?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try and measure the depth of the disturbed water while pouring (meaning how deep is the water visually disrupted/no longer perfectly clear).  The goal can be to predict what will happen with a larger experiment at the end of class that they won&#8217;t be able to recreate at their desk.  To be accurate and scientific students would need to take a picture or freeze frame a video and measure the distance.  They would vary the height the water is poured from, the angle of the can(which controls flow), and maybe the time to pour.</p>
<p>eh?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sue		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242097</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sue]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242097</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t worry, they&#039;ll come back. It&#039;s like riding a bike, I think... 

When I read &quot;do you see where this is going? How we’re (quickly) going to rule out Geometry?&quot; I first thought you meant this one couldn&#039;t be solved without calculus. But considering the glasses you bought the other day, I now see that you mean there will be other how-high problems where we no longer have a cone.

Anyway, here&#039;s me no-calc solution:
 In your equation, y = 1/12 x +1.75, the x is the height and the y is the radius. It seemed easier to me to imagine the whole cone involved (go down or back to the point), so I found the x-intercept of this line, which is x= -21, and then said from there the radius is always 1/12 the height.

V=pi/3 * r^2*h. But r=1/12 h, so V = pi/432 * h^3.

But the bottom part can&#039;t have liquid, so 
V =354.88 =pi/432*h^3-pi/432*21^3.
Soling for h gives 37.5, and subtracting 21 to get back to the original problem gives 16.5cm, which is not to the top.

Does this count as geometry?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry, they&#8217;ll come back. It&#8217;s like riding a bike, I think&#8230; </p>
<p>When I read &#8220;do you see where this is going? How we’re (quickly) going to rule out Geometry?&#8221; I first thought you meant this one couldn&#8217;t be solved without calculus. But considering the glasses you bought the other day, I now see that you mean there will be other how-high problems where we no longer have a cone.</p>
<p>Anyway, here&#8217;s me no-calc solution:<br />
 In your equation, y = 1/12 x +1.75, the x is the height and the y is the radius. It seemed easier to me to imagine the whole cone involved (go down or back to the point), so I found the x-intercept of this line, which is x= -21, and then said from there the radius is always 1/12 the height.</p>
<p>V=pi/3 * r^2*h. But r=1/12 h, so V = pi/432 * h^3.</p>
<p>But the bottom part can&#8217;t have liquid, so<br />
V =354.88 =pi/432*h^3-pi/432*21^3.<br />
Soling for h gives 37.5, and subtracting 21 to get back to the original problem gives 16.5cm, which is not to the top.</p>
<p>Does this count as geometry?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242093</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242093</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Crud. Thanks. In a previous draft I just found the area under the curve, didn&#039;t even use solids of revolution. I&#039;m kind of insecure here. Years of teaching remedial algebra has basically put a knife to my higher math skills. Don&#039;t tell anyone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crud. Thanks. In a previous draft I just found the area under the curve, didn&#8217;t even use solids of revolution. I&#8217;m kind of insecure here. Years of teaching remedial algebra has basically put a knife to my higher math skills. Don&#8217;t tell anyone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242088</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242088</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dan, you&#039;re right that there&#039;s a mistake and you&#039;ll kick yourself.  You actually forgot to integrate.  Take a look - you expanded the bracket and accidently dropped the integral sign.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, you&#8217;re right that there&#8217;s a mistake and you&#8217;ll kick yourself.  You actually forgot to integrate.  Take a look &#8211; you expanded the bracket and accidently dropped the integral sign.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242086</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242086</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sure, do Geometry. This here is, what, a truncated cone? A frustum? I tend to think it&#039;s an asset that the same (relatively) uncontrived problem can be solved in Geometry and Calculus but, regardless, do you see where this is going? How we&#039;re (quickly) going to rule out Geometry? The bizarre, challenging territory this sort of problem will scale to while maintaining the same simplicity of the original question, &quot;How high?&quot;

NB. My calculus, apparently, sucks. I&#039;d expect some error due to estimation, the thickness of the glass, etc., but my margin of error is on the order of 600%. Can someone check &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mrmeyer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/wcydwtclubsoda.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my work&lt;/a&gt;?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, do Geometry. This here is, what, a truncated cone? A frustum? I tend to think it&#8217;s an asset that the same (relatively) uncontrived problem can be solved in Geometry and Calculus but, regardless, do you see where this is going? How we&#8217;re (quickly) going to rule out Geometry? The bizarre, challenging territory this sort of problem will scale to while maintaining the same simplicity of the original question, &#8220;How high?&#8221;</p>
<p>NB. My calculus, apparently, sucks. I&#8217;d expect some error due to estimation, the thickness of the glass, etc., but my margin of error is on the order of 600%. Can someone check <a href="http://www.mrmeyer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/wcydwtclubsoda.jpg" rel="nofollow">my work</a>?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Dyer		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242079</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Dyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242079</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Dan: Why does working out how high the soda goes require calculus? It seems like a straight (albeit tricky) geometry problem to me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan: Why does working out how high the soda goes require calculus? It seems like a straight (albeit tricky) geometry problem to me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate Nowak		</title>
		<link>/2009/what-can-you-do-with-this-club-soda/#comment-242061</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate Nowak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=4255#comment-242061</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The kiddos and I have had some fun with &lt;a href=&quot;http://nlvm.usu.edu/en/nav/frames_asid_275_g_4_t_4.html?from=category_g_4_t_4.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this thing&lt;/a&gt;. It simulates pouring fluid from one container to another. You guess how high the fluid will rise in the new container. It has rectangular prisms, cylinders, rectangular pyramids, and cones.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The kiddos and I have had some fun with <a href="http://nlvm.usu.edu/en/nav/frames_asid_275_g_4_t_4.html?from=category_g_4_t_4.html" rel="nofollow">this thing</a>. It simulates pouring fluid from one container to another. You guess how high the fluid will rise in the new container. It has rectangular prisms, cylinders, rectangular pyramids, and cones.</p>
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