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	Comments on: [3ACTS] Some Really Obscure Geometry Problem	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 00:23:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [LOA] The Real World Multiplier		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-544479</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [LOA] The Real World Multiplier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 00:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-544479</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Math teachers grossly undervalue these tasks. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Math teachers grossly undervalue these tasks. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [LOA] The Place Where Language And Math Make Friends		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-475168</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [LOA] The Place Where Language And Math Make Friends]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 03:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-475168</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] response one year ago to a commenter who said I was always recommending that math teachers apologize for the abstractness of math: [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] response one year ago to a commenter who said I was always recommending that math teachers apologize for the abstractness of math: [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Yves Combe		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-426849</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yves Combe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 14:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-426849</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for this interesting question.

Sequel:
- if the shape is not a square? Is the result the same in a rectangle, trapezium, parallelogram, rhombus… what shape give the same result?
- if the middle point is not at 1/2, but at p/q? at x (0&#060;x&#060;1) ?
The smallest triangle is 1/12 of the square. Where put the point to get  1/144 ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this interesting question.</p>
<p>Sequel:<br />
&#8211; if the shape is not a square? Is the result the same in a rectangle, trapezium, parallelogram, rhombus… what shape give the same result?<br />
&#8211; if the middle point is not at 1/2, but at p/q? at x (0&lt;x&lt;1) ?<br />
The smallest triangle is 1/12 of the square. Where put the point to get  1/144 ?</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Three Stories About The Same Thing		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-393940</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Three Stories About The Same Thing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 00:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-393940</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] This is a more accurate representation of how I solved the problem. (I had to decide that a table and a graph would be helpful. I had to decide that a linear equation would be the best model. No one gave me any of that.) It&#039;s also more perplexing to see a problem as it exists in the wild, &#034;posed simply and innocently, not flayed alive by terminology, labels, and notation.&#034; [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] This is a more accurate representation of how I solved the problem. (I had to decide that a table and a graph would be helpful. I had to decide that a linear equation would be the best model. No one gave me any of that.) It&#039;s also more perplexing to see a problem as it exists in the wild, &quot;posed simply and innocently, not flayed alive by terminology, labels, and notation.&quot; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nate L.		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-344928</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nate L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2011 23:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-344928</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This problem is similar to a problem Michael Serra spoke about at CMC South Palm Springs in Nov &#039;11.

He uses patty paper Geometry and the Book &quot;Origamics&quot; (can&#039;t remember author) to pose the problem.

The solution is very elegant when done folding as well!!

Patty Paper doesn&#039;t = Video, but anoter medium and cool to see the versatility of this problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This problem is similar to a problem Michael Serra spoke about at CMC South Palm Springs in Nov &#8217;11.</p>
<p>He uses patty paper Geometry and the Book &#8220;Origamics&#8221; (can&#8217;t remember author) to pose the problem.</p>
<p>The solution is very elegant when done folding as well!!</p>
<p>Patty Paper doesn&#8217;t = Video, but anoter medium and cool to see the versatility of this problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adam P.		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-339373</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam P.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-339373</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve talked to a few colleagues who also couldn&#039;t open the Geogebra answer file.  Any chance of you trying to make a new link here in the comments we could try?  :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve talked to a few colleagues who also couldn&#8217;t open the Geogebra answer file.  Any chance of you trying to make a new link here in the comments we could try?  :)</p>
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		<title>
		By: nerdypoo		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-323650</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nerdypoo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-323650</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[how interesting. i am a math teacher who came to math teaching by way of an alternative certification program, and therefore have no real background in math. i teach only lower grades and have never taught a strictly geometry course, but the curriculum i currently teach in has a spiraling nature, so there is a lot of geometry covered. 


i called the biggest triangle region I, the triangle on the bottom next to it region II, the smallest triangle region III, and the non-triangle region IV.

here were my thoughts:
I + II = 50%
II + III = 25%
4*III = I

i then began a process of guess-and-check, which was a great thinking tool for determining the reasonableness of my initial guess (which is something i tell my students to always think about). i began each time with guessing a value for III and seeing if everything would work out. i had a few a-ha moments and ultimately settled on I = 33 1/3, II = 16 2/3, III = 8 1/3, and IV = 41 2/3. 


what i think is fantastic about this puzzle is that it can be approached in so many ways. since i do not have a huge background in geometry, i found the problem to be a great puzzle, and i certainly did NOT think about medians, centroids, heights, or anything like that, as many of you did. i relied only on my knowledge of similar triangles &#038; how to calculate the area of a triangle. i made a bunch of sketches and fooled around with ideas. this is why i think it could be good for kids of various levels. 

i teach in the IB and for me, this would be a great investigation where kids had to explain their thinking, what steps they took, what initial misconceptions they had (like perhaps that since the similar triangles were in the ratio of 2:1, their area was also in the ratio of 2:1).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how interesting. i am a math teacher who came to math teaching by way of an alternative certification program, and therefore have no real background in math. i teach only lower grades and have never taught a strictly geometry course, but the curriculum i currently teach in has a spiraling nature, so there is a lot of geometry covered. </p>
<p>i called the biggest triangle region I, the triangle on the bottom next to it region II, the smallest triangle region III, and the non-triangle region IV.</p>
<p>here were my thoughts:<br />
I + II = 50%<br />
II + III = 25%<br />
4*III = I</p>
<p>i then began a process of guess-and-check, which was a great thinking tool for determining the reasonableness of my initial guess (which is something i tell my students to always think about). i began each time with guessing a value for III and seeing if everything would work out. i had a few a-ha moments and ultimately settled on I = 33 1/3, II = 16 2/3, III = 8 1/3, and IV = 41 2/3. </p>
<p>what i think is fantastic about this puzzle is that it can be approached in so many ways. since i do not have a huge background in geometry, i found the problem to be a great puzzle, and i certainly did NOT think about medians, centroids, heights, or anything like that, as many of you did. i relied only on my knowledge of similar triangles &amp; how to calculate the area of a triangle. i made a bunch of sketches and fooled around with ideas. this is why i think it could be good for kids of various levels. </p>
<p>i teach in the IB and for me, this would be a great investigation where kids had to explain their thinking, what steps they took, what initial misconceptions they had (like perhaps that since the similar triangles were in the ratio of 2:1, their area was also in the ratio of 2:1).</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; NCTM President Michael Shaughnessy Responds To My Revision Of His Geometry Task		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-316961</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; NCTM President Michael Shaughnessy Responds To My Revision Of His Geometry Task]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-316961</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] amigos. I&#039;m back from Spain, back in the game after sidelining myself for a helluva comment thread. It turns out that NCTM President Michael Shaughnessy designed the task that I critiqued in a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] amigos. I&#039;m back from Spain, back in the game after sidelining myself for a helluva comment thread. It turns out that NCTM President Michael Shaughnessy designed the task that I critiqued in a [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Scammell		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-314597</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Scammell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 03:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-314597</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dan, I&#039;m late to the party here, but this is some of your finest work. As posed initially, many students would be left wondering what was being asked of them, and wouldn&#039;t really know where to start. By creating the simple animation, you have brought it to life, and made it compelling. Every student now knows what is being asked. They can make a guess. They have an entry.

I say it&#039;s some of your finest work, because of its simplicity. You haven&#039;t taken a flashy or already compelling video and turned it into a math question. Instead, you have taken an existing question and made it compelling. No teacher can look at this and say, &quot;Yeah, but how does it fit into my curriculum?&quot;  It&#039;s straight out of their curriculum.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, I&#8217;m late to the party here, but this is some of your finest work. As posed initially, many students would be left wondering what was being asked of them, and wouldn&#8217;t really know where to start. By creating the simple animation, you have brought it to life, and made it compelling. Every student now knows what is being asked. They can make a guess. They have an entry.</p>
<p>I say it&#8217;s some of your finest work, because of its simplicity. You haven&#8217;t taken a flashy or already compelling video and turned it into a math question. Instead, you have taken an existing question and made it compelling. No teacher can look at this and say, &#8220;Yeah, but how does it fit into my curriculum?&#8221;  It&#8217;s straight out of their curriculum.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Climeguy		</title>
		<link>/2011/3acts-some-really-obscure-geometry-problem/#comment-314444</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Climeguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2011 16:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11116#comment-314444</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Reply to Shari and Mickey:

@Shari As long as the curriculum continues to be revisions of Traditional Math (1.0) teachers will continue to try to make their teaching more interesting by writing their own problems. But alas that does not scale much as you have pointed out. We need bolder, more creative &quot;curriculum&quot; that engages more students and is not so labor intensive for the teachers. Sadly, these our not coming out in our mainstream curriculum pipelines any time soon as far as I can tell. 

With all due respect to our current NCTM&#039;s president Mickey Schaugnessy&#039;s comment: 

Sure, it’s ‘cooler’ that way, but i completely disagree with your comment on this one, about ‘how the problem was posed.’ It’s only boring in the beholder’s eyes, depends on how it’s pitched to a group.Â 

I say, you are right. It&#039;s always how its pitched,  but why choose problems that are difficult to motivate for most students? I&#039;m not talking about the honors level students or the kids who like math, but the average ones that we fail especially in the urban school districts? And that attitude is what keeps us stuck in the old paradigm where the vast majority of students don&#039;t get much out of math and just go through the motions to satisfy course requirements. 

This problem is fine for a traditional geometry course. if I was teaching such a course I would use it.  But this is nothing new; it&#039;s business as usual. And it&#039;s definitely not one I would share at a showcase conference intended for teachers of grades 3-8. 

-Ihor]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply to Shari and Mickey:</p>
<p>@Shari As long as the curriculum continues to be revisions of Traditional Math (1.0) teachers will continue to try to make their teaching more interesting by writing their own problems. But alas that does not scale much as you have pointed out. We need bolder, more creative &#8220;curriculum&#8221; that engages more students and is not so labor intensive for the teachers. Sadly, these our not coming out in our mainstream curriculum pipelines any time soon as far as I can tell. </p>
<p>With all due respect to our current NCTM&#8217;s president Mickey Schaugnessy&#8217;s comment: </p>
<p>Sure, it’s ‘cooler’ that way, but i completely disagree with your comment on this one, about ‘how the problem was posed.’ It’s only boring in the beholder’s eyes, depends on how it’s pitched to a group.Â </p>
<p>I say, you are right. It&#8217;s always how its pitched,  but why choose problems that are difficult to motivate for most students? I&#8217;m not talking about the honors level students or the kids who like math, but the average ones that we fail especially in the urban school districts? And that attitude is what keeps us stuck in the old paradigm where the vast majority of students don&#8217;t get much out of math and just go through the motions to satisfy course requirements. </p>
<p>This problem is fine for a traditional geometry course. if I was teaching such a course I would use it.  But this is nothing new; it&#8217;s business as usual. And it&#8217;s definitely not one I would share at a showcase conference intended for teachers of grades 3-8. </p>
<p>-Ihor</p>
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