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	<title>
	Comments on: Dissent Of The Day: H. Wells Wulsin	</title>
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	<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/</link>
	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:04:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Don		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282951</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282951</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you want to talk about making math interesting, topical, relevant, etc, I&#039;m all on board. I think if you simply have folks like Dan creating materials and bringing their passion for the subject and for learning the subject you have at least some improvement over the norm.

If you want to talk about making something COOL, however, I&#039;ll take a pass. In my 40 years I can say there&#039;s been one constant: people and organizations that try to MAKE something cool inevitably fail. What is cool now is different than when I was a teen but the awkwardness of things failing to be cool is just as unpleasant as it ever was.

Kids may not yet have figured out that getting someone cool to hang out with them won&#039;t make them cool but they can see right through our efforts to make a subject cool just by involving someone famous.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to talk about making math interesting, topical, relevant, etc, I&#8217;m all on board. I think if you simply have folks like Dan creating materials and bringing their passion for the subject and for learning the subject you have at least some improvement over the norm.</p>
<p>If you want to talk about making something COOL, however, I&#8217;ll take a pass. In my 40 years I can say there&#8217;s been one constant: people and organizations that try to MAKE something cool inevitably fail. What is cool now is different than when I was a teen but the awkwardness of things failing to be cool is just as unpleasant as it ever was.</p>
<p>Kids may not yet have figured out that getting someone cool to hang out with them won&#8217;t make them cool but they can see right through our efforts to make a subject cool just by involving someone famous.</p>
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		<title>
		By: timstudiesmath		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282945</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[timstudiesmath]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282945</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What could you do with Sylvia&#039;s numbers? She counts the number of entire schools, but only allows one teacher per school to decide whether to purchase software. Sounds like a math problem to me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What could you do with Sylvia&#8217;s numbers? She counts the number of entire schools, but only allows one teacher per school to decide whether to purchase software. Sounds like a math problem to me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lisa		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282921</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lisa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 00:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282921</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think Sylvia is on the mark!

I personally have been not enthused by the various mathematical software that I have reviewed.  This year I have been piloting various &quot;math websites.&quot;  In the class with students who most persistantly resist learning algebra, they seemed pretty much bored with much of the technology.  I have used catchupmath.com for practice, and it&#039;s a little better than drill and kill, but the students don&#039;t really want to do math problems on the computer if they don&#039;t want to do them IRL.
When I mentioned to one student about making a powerpoint, they said, &quot;I hate making powerpoints.&quot;  Now, of course, this is out of the mouth of adolescents...so the excitement level will always be affected by their age.

The one technology tool (not software) that has been most engaging this year is my interwrite panel (which an ipad can also do).  What I write on my panel writes directly on any projection.  Kids can also use the panel to write out problems.

This is why I have been enjoying this blog so much (thanks, Dan!) because it is leading me to the path to find more ways to connect to the kids with math that connects to the real life.  I am in the pre-contemplative stage of integrating all of these great ideas in my practice.  
Lisa]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Sylvia is on the mark!</p>
<p>I personally have been not enthused by the various mathematical software that I have reviewed.  This year I have been piloting various &#8220;math websites.&#8221;  In the class with students who most persistantly resist learning algebra, they seemed pretty much bored with much of the technology.  I have used catchupmath.com for practice, and it&#8217;s a little better than drill and kill, but the students don&#8217;t really want to do math problems on the computer if they don&#8217;t want to do them IRL.<br />
When I mentioned to one student about making a powerpoint, they said, &#8220;I hate making powerpoints.&#8221;  Now, of course, this is out of the mouth of adolescents&#8230;so the excitement level will always be affected by their age.</p>
<p>The one technology tool (not software) that has been most engaging this year is my interwrite panel (which an ipad can also do).  What I write on my panel writes directly on any projection.  Kids can also use the panel to write out problems.</p>
<p>This is why I have been enjoying this blog so much (thanks, Dan!) because it is leading me to the path to find more ways to connect to the kids with math that connects to the real life.  I am in the pre-contemplative stage of integrating all of these great ideas in my practice.<br />
Lisa</p>
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		<title>
		By: sylvia martinez		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282906</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sylvia martinez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282906</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Having worked in the educational software industry for over a decade, I have to disagree that math software has &quot;never been done before&quot;. There are many examples in the early days of software that you can point to for interesting exploratory math. However, those days are over. Two reasons: school demands and economics.

1. Schools demand that publishers align all curricular software to standards. That means that publishers give them what they ask for - boring software that drills on the basic facts and provides assessment reports that match standards.

2. Most video games these days START at a $5M development budget. There are only about 100,000 schools in the US. Let&#039;s say that 10% of them spent $50 for a game. Your expected sales revenue would only be $500,000. And 10% is a HUGE market share. Expecting a company to spend &quot;a few million&quot; on game development where the best you can do is take in $500,000 doesn&#039;t make sense.

I remember when Halo (I think Halo 3) came out and sold 4 million copies the first week. There are only 4 million teachers in the US. So why would any company spend R&#038;D time and money to reach a tiny market segment? Plus one that has a wide range of needs (12 grades, all subject areas, different standards.)

If there were millions to be made in educational software development, believe me, people would be trying.

The only way to make money is the way the big publishers do it - sell giant systems for tens of thousands of dollars that correlate to standards and produce assessment reports that make superintendents happy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having worked in the educational software industry for over a decade, I have to disagree that math software has &#8220;never been done before&#8221;. There are many examples in the early days of software that you can point to for interesting exploratory math. However, those days are over. Two reasons: school demands and economics.</p>
<p>1. Schools demand that publishers align all curricular software to standards. That means that publishers give them what they ask for &#8211; boring software that drills on the basic facts and provides assessment reports that match standards.</p>
<p>2. Most video games these days START at a $5M development budget. There are only about 100,000 schools in the US. Let&#8217;s say that 10% of them spent $50 for a game. Your expected sales revenue would only be $500,000. And 10% is a HUGE market share. Expecting a company to spend &#8220;a few million&#8221; on game development where the best you can do is take in $500,000 doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
<p>I remember when Halo (I think Halo 3) came out and sold 4 million copies the first week. There are only 4 million teachers in the US. So why would any company spend R&amp;D time and money to reach a tiny market segment? Plus one that has a wide range of needs (12 grades, all subject areas, different standards.)</p>
<p>If there were millions to be made in educational software development, believe me, people would be trying.</p>
<p>The only way to make money is the way the big publishers do it &#8211; sell giant systems for tens of thousands of dollars that correlate to standards and produce assessment reports that make superintendents happy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282904</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282904</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m gonna have to stick up for Mr. Wulsin on this one. The thing that made me happiest in my student teaching was having access to Accelerated Math, so my students could get instant feedback, compared with my over-the-weekend-at-best grading. I also remember using some tutoring software (in ESL, not Math). It was completely low quality. It looked like the whole graphical interface was made in paint. It offended my 21st century sensibilities. Not that I disagree with the idea of rich problems within a narrative, but there is definite value in some more diverse and high quality mathematics tools. For example, maybe a choose your own adventure program dependant on clicker responses could have a combination of the elements everyone seems to be rooting for: narrative, instant feedback, quality video, paid actors, engaging subject matter. There are a lot of directions this could go. Could you build a whole curriculum out of this? Maybe not, but I would consider using something like that as a supplement.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m gonna have to stick up for Mr. Wulsin on this one. The thing that made me happiest in my student teaching was having access to Accelerated Math, so my students could get instant feedback, compared with my over-the-weekend-at-best grading. I also remember using some tutoring software (in ESL, not Math). It was completely low quality. It looked like the whole graphical interface was made in paint. It offended my 21st century sensibilities. Not that I disagree with the idea of rich problems within a narrative, but there is definite value in some more diverse and high quality mathematics tools. For example, maybe a choose your own adventure program dependant on clicker responses could have a combination of the elements everyone seems to be rooting for: narrative, instant feedback, quality video, paid actors, engaging subject matter. There are a lot of directions this could go. Could you build a whole curriculum out of this? Maybe not, but I would consider using something like that as a supplement.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andrew Shauver		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282887</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Shauver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 14:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282887</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[An additional question that I have goes all the way back to the thesis statement of the article: &quot;Learning mathematics, like learning to play the violin, works best with immediate feedback.&quot;

I would like to see a bit more support for this statement. I suppose that it seems intuitive to a point, but does it conflict with the basic need for patient, persistent problem-solving? How do you develop patience and persistence in a math classroom that thrives on immediacy?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An additional question that I have goes all the way back to the thesis statement of the article: &#8220;Learning mathematics, like learning to play the violin, works best with immediate feedback.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would like to see a bit more support for this statement. I suppose that it seems intuitive to a point, but does it conflict with the basic need for patient, persistent problem-solving? How do you develop patience and persistence in a math classroom that thrives on immediacy?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Daniel Schaben		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282882</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Schaben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 13:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282882</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So what math concept will they cover on Jersey Shore?  Sorry not a productive comment, but I think school is a great place to escape pop culture.  America is in trouble if we equate success with popularity and your bank account.  Definitely feel I am successful as a teacher.  Not very popular and not rich.  I hope my next banker learned how to equate interest from someone other than Danica Patrick. Sorry Danica.  I love you . . .  you&#039;re a great racer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what math concept will they cover on Jersey Shore?  Sorry not a productive comment, but I think school is a great place to escape pop culture.  America is in trouble if we equate success with popularity and your bank account.  Definitely feel I am successful as a teacher.  Not very popular and not rich.  I hope my next banker learned how to equate interest from someone other than Danica Patrick. Sorry Danica.  I love you . . .  you&#8217;re a great racer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pam		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282880</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282880</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Never mind . . . brain dead . . .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never mind . . . brain dead . . .</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pam		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Would someone please link the article in question?  Thanks--]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would someone please link the article in question?  Thanks&#8211;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ian Byrd		</title>
		<link>/2011/dissent-of-the-day-h-wells-wulsin/#comment-282866</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Byrd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10063#comment-282866</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Maybe these strategies have &quot;never been tried before in a math software package,&quot; but the idea of making learning cool has certainly been tried in the field of education.

The year was 1998. In health class, we watched a video of the 1980s Lakers &quot;rapping&quot; about not doing drugs. Their shorts were very short and I am quite grateful they were not filmed in HD.

One year later, my econ class watched a video featuring Reggie Jackson showing the usefulness of economics through baseball. However, many were confused about who he was, since he had not played the game in more than a decade. Reggie was pretty distracting from the underlying content.

As soon as you go down this route, you&#039;re constantly rewriting, recasting, and re-filming these videos. And this doesn&#039;t even address whether or not the videos will actually help students learn.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe these strategies have &#8220;never been tried before in a math software package,&#8221; but the idea of making learning cool has certainly been tried in the field of education.</p>
<p>The year was 1998. In health class, we watched a video of the 1980s Lakers &#8220;rapping&#8221; about not doing drugs. Their shorts were very short and I am quite grateful they were not filmed in HD.</p>
<p>One year later, my econ class watched a video featuring Reggie Jackson showing the usefulness of economics through baseball. However, many were confused about who he was, since he had not played the game in more than a decade. Reggie was pretty distracting from the underlying content.</p>
<p>As soon as you go down this route, you&#8217;re constantly rewriting, recasting, and re-filming these videos. And this doesn&#8217;t even address whether or not the videos will actually help students learn.</p>
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