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	Comments on: I Don&#8217;t Hate This At All	</title>
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	<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/</link>
	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:01:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Breedeen		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-315111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Breedeen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-315111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Steve

I completely disagree. The structure of these problem steps does not &quot;sterilize&quot; the process for students. It provides students with multiple entry points for approaching this problem. The idea that students would have forgotten about what the problem is after engaging in it using visual and geometric strategies speaks to our society&#039;s algebra-centric approach to learning math. 

My one tweak to this process would be to remove the ordering. There is no compelling reason that students would need to do these steps in this specific order, though some may find drawing and labeling the diagram a useful first step.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve</p>
<p>I completely disagree. The structure of these problem steps does not &#8220;sterilize&#8221; the process for students. It provides students with multiple entry points for approaching this problem. The idea that students would have forgotten about what the problem is after engaging in it using visual and geometric strategies speaks to our society&#8217;s algebra-centric approach to learning math. </p>
<p>My one tweak to this process would be to remove the ordering. There is no compelling reason that students would need to do these steps in this specific order, though some may find drawing and labeling the diagram a useful first step.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Schwanbeck		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-315099</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Schwanbeck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 16:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-315099</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a way you could make the rock dropping down the well problem more engaging and &quot;less helpful&quot;:

Watch the video &quot;1500 ft Hole&quot; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JRq80whGDk). Is the claim that the hole is 1500 ft deep accurate? Use your own calculations and the principles of physics to support your answer. A hint to get you started: the speed of sound is about 1125 feet/sec.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a way you could make the rock dropping down the well problem more engaging and &#8220;less helpful&#8221;:</p>
<p>Watch the video &#8220;1500 ft Hole&#8221; (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JRq80whGDk" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JRq80whGDk</a>). Is the claim that the hole is 1500 ft deep accurate? Use your own calculations and the principles of physics to support your answer. A hint to get you started: the speed of sound is about 1125 feet/sec.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Phelps		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-314805</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Phelps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-314805</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Joshua,

Here is what I dislike about the first problem. It puts a nice, tidy box around the problem solving process in such a way that any potential messiness is removed. 

Beyond the potential for solving the problem without going through these steps (which I think has been alluded to in other comments), I think the punch line is in Question 17 - &quot;Solve the equation and answer the question.&quot;

The student will need to be reminded to do this, because after the sterilizing effects of questions 13-16, the student will have forgotten all about the original problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua,</p>
<p>Here is what I dislike about the first problem. It puts a nice, tidy box around the problem solving process in such a way that any potential messiness is removed. </p>
<p>Beyond the potential for solving the problem without going through these steps (which I think has been alluded to in other comments), I think the punch line is in Question 17 &#8211; &#8220;Solve the equation and answer the question.&#8221;</p>
<p>The student will need to be reminded to do this, because after the sterilizing effects of questions 13-16, the student will have forgotten all about the original problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joshua Schmidt		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-314772</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua Schmidt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 16:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-314772</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Steve, I think the main difference between the problems is the first one, from a scaffolding perspective, takes a skill that the student already has and tries to extend it into a relevant problem.

By drawing a picture first, then using labels on the picture, we are teaching a generalized skill that will help the student get through many similar problems. Is it a perfect problem? no. Is it better than most of the ones that my textbook provides me? In my opinion...absolutely. Instead of 5 illogical steps that students wouldn&#039;t get on their own, this is actually the process that I would like them to learn.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, I think the main difference between the problems is the first one, from a scaffolding perspective, takes a skill that the student already has and tries to extend it into a relevant problem.</p>
<p>By drawing a picture first, then using labels on the picture, we are teaching a generalized skill that will help the student get through many similar problems. Is it a perfect problem? no. Is it better than most of the ones that my textbook provides me? In my opinion&#8230;absolutely. Instead of 5 illogical steps that students wouldn&#8217;t get on their own, this is actually the process that I would like them to learn.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Phelps		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-313662</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Phelps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 20:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-313662</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[After thinking about this a couple of days, I am not sure I get the difference between the &quot;scaffolding&quot; the two problems are providing.

Both problems concede that the student is just too helpless to solve either on their own. Even the first problem says,  &quot;C&#039;mon, you guys. Since you will never figure out what I want you to REALLY do, just follow these five simple steps so we can all get out of here.&quot;  Furthermore, I am not at all convinced that these five steps can be applied universally to other problems the students might encounter.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After thinking about this a couple of days, I am not sure I get the difference between the &#8220;scaffolding&#8221; the two problems are providing.</p>
<p>Both problems concede that the student is just too helpless to solve either on their own. Even the first problem says,  &#8220;C&#8217;mon, you guys. Since you will never figure out what I want you to REALLY do, just follow these five simple steps so we can all get out of here.&#8221;  Furthermore, I am not at all convinced that these five steps can be applied universally to other problems the students might encounter.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joshua Schmidt		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-313237</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua Schmidt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 17:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-313237</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t hate that problem at all either. I find myself immediately thinking (for once) that this is a problem you could simply model as a real life problem. The context of the problem isn&#039;t necessary in the sense that you could just present them visuals without the wording of the problem. 

Written problems are great, but I love problems that you don&#039;t need the written context to solve. Fantastic!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t hate that problem at all either. I find myself immediately thinking (for once) that this is a problem you could simply model as a real life problem. The context of the problem isn&#8217;t necessary in the sense that you could just present them visuals without the wording of the problem. </p>
<p>Written problems are great, but I love problems that you don&#8217;t need the written context to solve. Fantastic!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Telannia Norfar		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-312816</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Telannia Norfar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 21:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-312816</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Damion I understand your comment &quot;Not everything needs (or wants) to be done on a computer&quot; is true but rarely are things done outside of a computer. Before entering into the world of education, I was in publishing. In high school we still designed newspapers and yearbooks by paper, however the real world didn&#039;t. I started my career in publishing in 1994, I never worked in a location where people were doing things by hand.

In general, the textbooks are too helpful but most of the time students don&#039;t even get that far because the reading is dense. My students head for the hills when they see word problems.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Damion I understand your comment &#8220;Not everything needs (or wants) to be done on a computer&#8221; is true but rarely are things done outside of a computer. Before entering into the world of education, I was in publishing. In high school we still designed newspapers and yearbooks by paper, however the real world didn&#8217;t. I started my career in publishing in 1994, I never worked in a location where people were doing things by hand.</p>
<p>In general, the textbooks are too helpful but most of the time students don&#8217;t even get that far because the reading is dense. My students head for the hills when they see word problems.</p>
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		<title>
		By: luke hodge		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-312803</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[luke hodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 20:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-312803</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wish there were a lot more problems in textbooks like this one that involve drawing and/or interpreting diagrams of easily recognizable situations.   However, I am not crazy about the particular road to the solution forced upon the reader.  Sure the question is probably in the chapter on solving equations, and it is good to be able to create an equation from a diagram, but it is much simpler and more natural in this case to just look at the diagram and do a couple of computations to figure out the width.  That the beauty of being able to create and understand a nice diagram - something that seems complicated becomes common sense.  Not saying I haven&#039;t been guilty of things like this as well, asking for unnecessary equations or overly complicated methods, it is often a tough call to make. 
   
Maybe the book could just add another question or two that are more likely to  require a variable or an equation.  For example, if there were three pictures in the row, the second being 50% wider than the first and third, this may be getting to be a little much for some to juggle in their head without at least labeling the diagram with a variable.  Or don&#039;t give the width of the paper and ask them to graph paper width as a function of picture width on the calculator.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish there were a lot more problems in textbooks like this one that involve drawing and/or interpreting diagrams of easily recognizable situations.   However, I am not crazy about the particular road to the solution forced upon the reader.  Sure the question is probably in the chapter on solving equations, and it is good to be able to create an equation from a diagram, but it is much simpler and more natural in this case to just look at the diagram and do a couple of computations to figure out the width.  That the beauty of being able to create and understand a nice diagram &#8211; something that seems complicated becomes common sense.  Not saying I haven&#8217;t been guilty of things like this as well, asking for unnecessary equations or overly complicated methods, it is often a tough call to make. </p>
<p>Maybe the book could just add another question or two that are more likely to  require a variable or an equation.  For example, if there were three pictures in the row, the second being 50% wider than the first and third, this may be getting to be a little much for some to juggle in their head without at least labeling the diagram with a variable.  Or don&#8217;t give the width of the paper and ask them to graph paper width as a function of picture width on the calculator.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anna		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-312792</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 20:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-312792</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The first problem makes me cringe, too.  It&#039;s still feels way too prescriptive.  And would you really use algebra to solve that? 

And, how about this exchange -

S: I don&#039;t know where to start.
T: Okay, it&#039;s a geometry problem.  What do you always do when you don&#039;t know where to start a geometry problem?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first problem makes me cringe, too.  It&#8217;s still feels way too prescriptive.  And would you really use algebra to solve that? </p>
<p>And, how about this exchange &#8211;</p>
<p>S: I don&#8217;t know where to start.<br />
T: Okay, it&#8217;s a geometry problem.  What do you always do when you don&#8217;t know where to start a geometry problem?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Damion Beth		</title>
		<link>/2011/i-dont-hate-this-at-all/#comment-312769</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damion Beth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=11154#comment-312769</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Except that first problem is EXACTLY what I did as a student in high school making a poster by hand for a foreign language contest.  I wanted to lay a ton of flags on a piece of tagboard and wanted so much of an outside margin and new the flag sizes I wanted.  I wanted to know how much space to put in between them.

Not everything needs (or wants) to be done on a computer, and I find it a totally applicable problem to give in my math classroom.  In fact, I think I may have given that EXACT same problem in my geometry or algebra class in the past couple years.

The second problem does make me cringe, however...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except that first problem is EXACTLY what I did as a student in high school making a poster by hand for a foreign language contest.  I wanted to lay a ton of flags on a piece of tagboard and wanted so much of an outside margin and new the flag sizes I wanted.  I wanted to know how much space to put in between them.</p>
<p>Not everything needs (or wants) to be done on a computer, and I find it a totally applicable problem to give in my math classroom.  In fact, I think I may have given that EXACT same problem in my geometry or algebra class in the past couple years.</p>
<p>The second problem does make me cringe, however&#8230;</p>
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