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	Comments on: Other People&#8217;s Problems	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 23:56:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; CMC-N 2011 Reax		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-358711</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; CMC-N 2011 Reax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 23:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-358711</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] pool at the Shell Centre in England, which includes Malcolm Swan, whose exemplary work I&#039;ve covered here and here. These are exceptional educators and task designers, but you don&#039;t have to take my word [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] pool at the Shell Centre in England, which includes Malcolm Swan, whose exemplary work I&#039;ve covered here and here. These are exceptional educators and task designers, but you don&#039;t have to take my word [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Multiplication Table &#8211; Part 1 &#171; Uncover A Few		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-345359</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Multiplication Table &#8211; Part 1 &#171; Uncover A Few]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2011 18:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-345359</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] table relate to the area and perimeter questions from Dan Meyer&#8217;s blog? Â (Does it relate to this more interesting question, too? Â Maybe not as strongly.) Â For some of the future multiplication table posts, you can get a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] table relate to the area and perimeter questions from Dan Meyer&#8217;s blog? Â (Does it relate to this more interesting question, too? Â Maybe not as strongly.) Â For some of the future multiplication table posts, you can get a [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Weekly Picks &#171; Mathblogging.org &#8212; the Blog		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-343111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Weekly Picks &#171; Mathblogging.org &#8212; the Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 01:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-343111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] tests etc, Â  Think, Thank, Thunk wondered about feeling bad you don&#8217;t knows something,Â  dy/dan shared some criteria for engaging problems and emergent math made a point about the biggest [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] tests etc, Â  Think, Thank, Thunk wondered about feeling bad you don&#8217;t knows something,Â  dy/dan shared some criteria for engaging problems and emergent math made a point about the biggest [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-341867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-341867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Clearly sloppy wordsmithing on the &quot;sack of suggestions&quot; remark.

You&#039;ve got your solutions. They&#039;re in a sack. Don&#039;t hold on to them too tightly. Don&#039;t be afraid to cut a few loose.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly sloppy wordsmithing on the &#8220;sack of suggestions&#8221; remark.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got your solutions. They&#8217;re in a sack. Don&#8217;t hold on to them too tightly. Don&#8217;t be afraid to cut a few loose.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Emily		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-341567</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Emily]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 01:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-341567</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I love this problem too. It has depth, intrigue and fabulous mathematical content. I once had a mentor/teacher who seemed to have an endless supply of problems like this: problems that at first glance seemed simple enough, but expanded to multiple levels of depth as the solution unfolded. He made it seem so easy, but now I can more fully appreciate the difficulty of finding and/or creating problems with a rich quality such as this one.

Dan, can I ask you to more fully explain what you mean by &quot;Keep a loose grip on your own sack of solutions?&quot; I&#039;m not quite sure how to interpret that suggestion.

Thanks for the endless intrigue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this problem too. It has depth, intrigue and fabulous mathematical content. I once had a mentor/teacher who seemed to have an endless supply of problems like this: problems that at first glance seemed simple enough, but expanded to multiple levels of depth as the solution unfolded. He made it seem so easy, but now I can more fully appreciate the difficulty of finding and/or creating problems with a rich quality such as this one.</p>
<p>Dan, can I ask you to more fully explain what you mean by &#8220;Keep a loose grip on your own sack of solutions?&#8221; I&#8217;m not quite sure how to interpret that suggestion.</p>
<p>Thanks for the endless intrigue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: simon		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-341315</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[simon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-341315</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great problem, lots of links between different topics.
Have visions of my class, sticking the shapes onto drawing pins, and putting them into the display board at the right point. Might make a great consolidation at the end of term.

Going to have to think about how this works with 3D shapes: surface area vs volume.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great problem, lots of links between different topics.<br />
Have visions of my class, sticking the shapes onto drawing pins, and putting them into the display board at the right point. Might make a great consolidation at the end of term.</p>
<p>Going to have to think about how this works with 3D shapes: surface area vs volume.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Phelps		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-340823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Phelps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-340823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This has got me thinking of a different problem, but with the same theme, that I had seen in a book by Dan Pedoe. 

If you write the equation of a circle in the form x^2 + y^2 - 2ax - 2by + c = 0, there are all sorts of interesting things that happen when you study the point (a,b,c) graphed in 3 dimensions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has got me thinking of a different problem, but with the same theme, that I had seen in a book by Dan Pedoe. </p>
<p>If you write the equation of a circle in the form x^2 + y^2 &#8211; 2ax &#8211; 2by + c = 0, there are all sorts of interesting things that happen when you study the point (a,b,c) graphed in 3 dimensions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DavidC		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-340699</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DavidC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 21:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-340699</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dan&#039;s list is amazing -- Lots of depth here.

&quot;Off the top, I’d like students to see that if a polygon has a fixed perimeter and a fixed number of sides, you can get the most area by making every side congruent.&quot;

(1) Great. Let&#039;s simplify to a rectangle. Why does making the sides closer in length (with the same perimeter) increase the area? 

(&lt;a href=&quot;https://plus.google.com/u/0/106120852580068301475/posts/8WMHg4tdZPT&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s my explanation.&lt;/a&gt;)

&quot;And if you have a fixed perimeter but you let the number of sides do as they please, you enclose more and more area by adding sides to the polygon, which constitutes a limit that ends in a circle.&quot; 

(2) Lots here -- talking informally about limits will be great.

&quot;Students should understand what points on the x-axis mean. Students should understand why the impossible points are impossible points and why the values for perimeter can increase endlessly even for a fixed small value for area.&quot;

(3) Now we can have fun with fractals, etc!



There&#039;s even good stuff for college-level topology students: Define a topology on figures in the plane. Is this map from there to the plane continuous?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan&#8217;s list is amazing &#8212; Lots of depth here.</p>
<p>&#8220;Off the top, I’d like students to see that if a polygon has a fixed perimeter and a fixed number of sides, you can get the most area by making every side congruent.&#8221;</p>
<p>(1) Great. Let&#8217;s simplify to a rectangle. Why does making the sides closer in length (with the same perimeter) increase the area? </p>
<p>(<a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/106120852580068301475/posts/8WMHg4tdZPT" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s my explanation.</a>)</p>
<p>&#8220;And if you have a fixed perimeter but you let the number of sides do as they please, you enclose more and more area by adding sides to the polygon, which constitutes a limit that ends in a circle.&#8221; </p>
<p>(2) Lots here &#8212; talking informally about limits will be great.</p>
<p>&#8220;Students should understand what points on the x-axis mean. Students should understand why the impossible points are impossible points and why the values for perimeter can increase endlessly even for a fixed small value for area.&#8221;</p>
<p>(3) Now we can have fun with fractals, etc!</p>
<p>There&#8217;s even good stuff for college-level topology students: Define a topology on figures in the plane. Is this map from there to the plane continuous?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Belinda Thompson		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-340691</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Belinda Thompson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 20:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-340691</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[#19 Sue:  Oops!  I meant here on Dan&#039;s blog, which I think is fantastic.

For Dan, DavidC and Joshua:
I love the generation of goals!  There are mathematics content goals, representation goals, problem solving goals, and self-reflection goals.  All of these are worthy goals for a mathematics lesson and several serve to create a productive classroom climate.  However, I don&#039;t agree with Joshua that the &quot;math content is the less important point&quot;.  Maybe I&#039;m misinterpreting that statement from him, but I think the math content goal (what students should understand, not just what they should be able to do) should be the most important.  Otherwise, how will I know whether students understood the math I wanted them to learn?

Dan&#039;s list of what students should understand is a great start. The first two sentences in his list would make for a super summary at the end of the work on this problem.  Making that connection explicit through the goal of what students should understand helped me to think about what to look for in student work, and what to listen for or introduce into a discussion of the problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19 Sue:  Oops!  I meant here on Dan&#8217;s blog, which I think is fantastic.</p>
<p>For Dan, DavidC and Joshua:<br />
I love the generation of goals!  There are mathematics content goals, representation goals, problem solving goals, and self-reflection goals.  All of these are worthy goals for a mathematics lesson and several serve to create a productive classroom climate.  However, I don&#8217;t agree with Joshua that the &#8220;math content is the less important point&#8221;.  Maybe I&#8217;m misinterpreting that statement from him, but I think the math content goal (what students should understand, not just what they should be able to do) should be the most important.  Otherwise, how will I know whether students understood the math I wanted them to learn?</p>
<p>Dan&#8217;s list of what students should understand is a great start. The first two sentences in his list would make for a super summary at the end of the work on this problem.  Making that connection explicit through the goal of what students should understand helped me to think about what to look for in student work, and what to listen for or introduce into a discussion of the problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joshua Zucker		</title>
		<link>/2011/other-peoples-problems/#comment-340656</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua Zucker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 18:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10913#comment-340656</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@DavidC I think the math content is the less important point, and the general strategies of &quot;Would you just draw a rectangle for me? Any rectangle.&quot; and &quot;Would you do that with five more rectangles and let me know what you notice, if anything?&quot; -- to me the big goal is to get the kids to learn to ask themselves that question.

I wholeheartedly agree with emphasizing &quot;the lesson that you can understand what’s going by representing things somewhere you can visualize&quot; -- and multiple representations in general.  But collecting data and visualizing it is certainly an important habit to get into, and one that will be useful outside of the math classroom, too (and I suspect increasingly useful in the future as well!)

To me the most important thing is that we explicitly point out these strategies to the students, so that they can start learning to use them on their own, rather than continuing to use them only when they&#039;re following directions or being led that way with a carefully designed prompt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DavidC I think the math content is the less important point, and the general strategies of &#8220;Would you just draw a rectangle for me? Any rectangle.&#8221; and &#8220;Would you do that with five more rectangles and let me know what you notice, if anything?&#8221; &#8212; to me the big goal is to get the kids to learn to ask themselves that question.</p>
<p>I wholeheartedly agree with emphasizing &#8220;the lesson that you can understand what’s going by representing things somewhere you can visualize&#8221; &#8212; and multiple representations in general.  But collecting data and visualizing it is certainly an important habit to get into, and one that will be useful outside of the math classroom, too (and I suspect increasingly useful in the future as well!)</p>
<p>To me the most important thing is that we explicitly point out these strategies to the students, so that they can start learning to use them on their own, rather than continuing to use them only when they&#8217;re following directions or being led that way with a carefully designed prompt.</p>
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