Comments on: Palo Alto High School Math Teachers: Some Of Our Students Objectively Can’t Learn Algebra

By: Gordon

Gordon — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:34:56 +0000

I am 64 years old. I have always been very good at basic mathematics and finance but have a complete blank with Algebra and was a complete failure at scholl with it. I even went to adult classes for g.s.c.e maths qualifications, raced away from the rest of the class in general maths , then algebra starts……result , after one term of it , well I just gave up !! My job before I retired was as an engineer, everyone came to me for advice on finance and to work their calculations out, nobody remembered the Algebra they did at school and nobody ever needed to !! In UK children are leaving school unable to do even basic maths. Why not concentrate on teaching things that the average person will actually need in life, learn about avoiding getting into debt, mortgages, banking, how to get best value shopping etc and lastly basic maths. In my opinion Algebra should be an optional class, it spoilt my chances of getting qualifications as I could never understand it . Lastly a true story that happened to me . When I was studying as a mature student for my city and guilds in engineering, we had a gearing reduction question which the teacher worked out in algebra, everyone else followed, accept for me , I worked it out using fractions. Of course the answer he came up with was different to mine but I could not see where I had gone wrong, all the young students laughed at me !! So I said to the Teacher if he had an answer book …..and he looked the answer up……I was right and he and the rest of the class was wrong !! So he was very astonished, sent the class home while I stayed back and showed him how I had worked it out. He took my work, phot copied it and handed it out to the class next week to replace the wrong answer done by algebra. Problem is he had got it wrong and because the students did not understand algebra they just copied what he said was right !! I passed the course with top marks and was given the award as student of the year.
But I still cant do Algebra !!

By: Ed Parker

Ed Parker — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 03:55:45 +0000

Suzanne,
Daniel has a lot of good reasons not to give up. I would like to add that, in spite of the ugliness of the bashing of teachers, public education in general, etc, there has never been a better time to be teaching math (thanks iPad). The blog we are reading and responding to is part of a terrific guerrilla network of the best professional development anywhere. Finding these resources online has benefited me enormously as a teacher, and benefited my students as a result.
The state tests are focussed on minimums, and teaching problem solving skills beyond them is the best strategy – it’s the best preparation for those who continue in math and the best preparation for problem solving on tests, whether state or SAT.
You can find ways to connect math to all kinds of social issues and debates as well as science and finance connections. There is much that is poorly understood about important issues because people generally lack the necessary foundation in math. Kids appreciate being in on the know – because you brought them in.

By: Maria Droujkova

Maria Droujkova — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:03:20 +0000

I would like to bring family educators into this conversation. At every homeschool meeting I visit, parents discuss decisions: “My kid will do these projects and subjects areas, and will not do those projects and subject areas.” These discussions never get to the level of drama and strife presented here, though of course, sometimes there are disagreements between kids and their parents, resolved within each family. These conversations and decisions, in family educator communities, are normal and non-controversial and very much a part of the daily routine of education. And yes, many delay Algebra II beyond the age of 18 years (possibly forever, as the case may be).

One size does not fit all.

But who will act in loco parentis for kids whose parents don’t?

My kid told me this Summer she does not want to do any math for a while, other than what comes in her freelancing. I don’t know what “a while” means. She’s doing that Stanford free programming course this Spring, though – because she’s inspired by Cory Doctorow’s work of programming as a social change force, and is doing a project with friends Cory though was a good idea, etc. I would rather she did this – or any number of other things – with love, than whatever math course is “next” without love.

Yesterday, I had a relevant conversation with a public school student I tutor in Algebra II. He loves math ideas and has beautiful insights, but he’s not good at computation by hand or paying attention to where the minus has to go. He would be brilliant in any computer-based math activity; as it is, he’s in the least demanding Algebra II class in his elite magnet school. He shared the fact both kids and the teacher in the class got so depressed this Fall that the teacher is quitting the profession over it. This isn’t right.

The point: this discussion can be about unique personal interests, desires and strengths of children.

By: stacey

stacey — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:44:48 +0000

Most kids can learn Algebra II. Most kids should learn Algebra II, and too many don’t.

Algebra is a skill used to develop higher level thinking, analytical thinking. It teaches students to work hard, to seek understanding, to push themselves to succeed. But, not if the teachers don’t valuse these traits that make the learner sussessful.

Too many of the above are basing there ideas on insufficiant data – why – cant those kids learn? Why dont they learn? Is it cognitive ability? Do you even know what you are talking about, or is all you research on “why” they can’t learn based on your own beleif system, based on what you are conditioned to believe, based on ignorance and the inability to critically read research and develop lesson plans and tests that are significant.

Most of the above comments are based on personal ideas and lack in critical analysis. Maybe, perhaps if we had more teachers that could look past thier own simple ideas – kids could and would learn.

By: Brooke in Math » Blog Archive » Algebra II Requirement

Brooke in Math » Blog Archive » Algebra II Requirement — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:34:48 +0000

[…] this post by Dan Meyer he talks about a group of teachers at a school that did not want an Algebra II […]

By: Daniel Schaben

Daniel Schaben — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:35:57 +0000

Suzanne – This is the ugly side of teaching math for sure, but do not get discouraged. Teaching math is the greatest!! Right now mathematics education is going through some growing pains. The classroom is still the same. The students are still the same. I love being with my students. I wouldn’t do anything else. As teachers we whine and complain. In the end teaching Algebra 2 to every student may not be possible, but some of the topics covered in this class are essential for students to understand in order to take part fully in our society. For instance, I would argue that the housing crises could have been avoided if more Americans understood the exponential function. Many had no idea that a variable rate interest would make that big of a difference in their 30 year mortgage payment, or that y = mx + b occurs in almost every aspect of our lives. It is our jobs to show them these connections. It is our jobs to give them the tools to not be taken advantage of mathematically (finance). Show me a job that could possibly be better?
We get to be the advocates to those who the rest of society has given up on. We get to make a difference in the lives of students that are told by other teachers/parents/society they can’t do it. We get to prove the arrogant naysayers wrong. There is no greater feeling in the world than to hear that student who you yourself had almost given up on say, “Wow, Mr./Mrs._______, I get it!”

By: Suzanne

Suzanne — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:52:15 +0000

This kind of nonsense makes me not want to be a high school teacher anymore. I’m a freshman in college and I’m working towards a double major in physics and secondary education, but now I’m just considering getting a physics major. In my area these standardized tests are becoming a huge priority in our school districts. I know from experience; as an advanced placement calculus student I had to do what was the equivalent an algebra 2 review packet to ensure I would do well on this standardized test. We took valuable class time to review this packet because my teacher felt pressured by the administration to make us review.
It’s ridiculous. I may just become a research scientist until I can get a master’s degree so I can be a college professor and not have to worry about all this BS.

This is so discouraging. A college student with a dream, being deterred by stupid standardized tests.

By: gasstationwithoutpumps

gasstationwithoutpumps — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:33:02 +0000

“iPhones, iPads and software are not designed nor built using statistics.”

Having been a computer engineering professor for many years, I can say quite definitely that a lot of hardware and software does require statistics. Computer engineers are required to take at least one probability course, and recent developments (particularly the rise of machine learning and data mining) have made Bayesian statistics highly recommended for computer science grad students (required for bioinformatics).

Google looks for statistics knowledge as well as programming knowledge, and both more than algebra.

By: Robert Hansen

Robert Hansen — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:24:21 +0000

My point eileen is that if you girl-proof your entire math curriculum then you are not exposing your girls to all the paths, specifically not the analytical and technical paths. I am not saying you did girl-proof your curriculum, I haven’t seen your curriculum. But I have seen the phenomena and it is my theory that is partly why we are loosing the girls in these fields. The other reason is simply that they find things they like to do better, which is fine.

I will stop hogging Dan’s blog now, I apologize. Thanks for putting up with me Dan, I will return the hospitality, some how.

By: Robert Hansen

Robert Hansen — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:00:17 +0000

@Eileen, do you have any links to your curriculum or results? I said most people don’t use algebra, which is true, but when people do use it, it is the full technical and analytical version of it. iPhones, iPads and software are not designed nor built using statistics. How many women have you seen present the newest gadgets and technology that we see today? I’m just being honest here. There is a big question making the rounds as to what happened to the girls. There are actually less now in these fields than there were, say, 10 or 15 years ago, and female mathematicians are on the endangered list. It could be that they found other things that they like better, life sciences and such, which is cool. My theory is that they were taught too much damn statistics, which has almost nothing to do with the technical and analytical attributes that define most of the STEM fields. Just a thought.:)