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	Comments on: [PS] Pseudorejects	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 05:07:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Robert E. Harris		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-275666</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert E. Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 05:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-275666</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The legs problem makes me think of a puzzle my bridge friend Bill Yancey put to me one night, years ago.

A farmer sends his son to market with $100 and tells him to spend the $100 to buy one hundred animals, a mix of chickens, pigs, and cows.  Cows cost $10 each, pigs are $3 each, and chickens are $0.50 each.  How many of each kind did the boy buy?

Maybe I have got the details mixed up somewhat, but that&#039;s the general trend of it.

I worked it out in my head as I drove home; there is some sort of small mental trick that occured to me that made it simple.  What I have forgotten.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The legs problem makes me think of a puzzle my bridge friend Bill Yancey put to me one night, years ago.</p>
<p>A farmer sends his son to market with $100 and tells him to spend the $100 to buy one hundred animals, a mix of chickens, pigs, and cows.  Cows cost $10 each, pigs are $3 each, and chickens are $0.50 each.  How many of each kind did the boy buy?</p>
<p>Maybe I have got the details mixed up somewhat, but that&#8217;s the general trend of it.</p>
<p>I worked it out in my head as I drove home; there is some sort of small mental trick that occured to me that made it simple.  What I have forgotten.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Breedeen		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-275574</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Breedeen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-275574</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Okay, normally I hate it when people leave comments saying &quot;check out the cool blog post I just wrote on this very topic!&quot;, but since I happened to write this several months ago, when I was first Pseudo-rejected, I guess it&#039;s not so bad...

This was my response to, and reflection on, what I think Pseudocontext means. It&#039;s a slightly different take than Dan&#039;s, though not quite as succinct.


http://wp.me/pWZ4o-2Z]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, normally I hate it when people leave comments saying &#8220;check out the cool blog post I just wrote on this very topic!&#8221;, but since I happened to write this several months ago, when I was first Pseudo-rejected, I guess it&#8217;s not so bad&#8230;</p>
<p>This was my response to, and reflection on, what I think Pseudocontext means. It&#8217;s a slightly different take than Dan&#8217;s, though not quite as succinct.</p>
<p><a href="http://wp.me/pWZ4o-2Z" rel="nofollow ugc">http://wp.me/pWZ4o-2Z</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-275137</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-275137</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The tax problem could easily be cleaned up if we were comparing final sale price.  Suppose a sweater at store A cost $30 and is 20% off then you use a 5% off coupon.  At store B you bought an identical sweater that retailed for $25 at 5% off then you used another 5% off coupon.  Which store did you pay more for a sweater?  

The question, why the difference in percentage can easily be explained by the fact that you clearly went to different stores; something students have analog experience with.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tax problem could easily be cleaned up if we were comparing final sale price.  Suppose a sweater at store A cost $30 and is 20% off then you use a 5% off coupon.  At store B you bought an identical sweater that retailed for $25 at 5% off then you used another 5% off coupon.  Which store did you pay more for a sweater?  </p>
<p>The question, why the difference in percentage can easily be explained by the fact that you clearly went to different stores; something students have analog experience with.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pwolf		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-275045</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pwolf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-275045</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[While these problems don&#039;t immediately jump out at us as detrimental to a student&#039;s understanding of how math applies to the world, they don&#039;t do anything to help.  One way to redeem many of these is to retool them so that the connection between the math and the context is more clear.

I agree with Dave as well.  To get someone to properly think about the problems, you basically would have to tell them &quot;forget the unicorns and the cubits,&quot; &quot;forget that it&#039;s a lightpole,&quot; or &quot;forget why the taxes are different.&quot;  It&#039;s like, though the context isn&#039;t patently false, it still somehow obscures the underlying math.  In order to understand the problems, the context needs to be stripped away.  In a &quot;good&quot; applications problem, it seems, the math derives naturally from the context.

I don&#039;t know if this has been addressed before, but I think that if we&#039;re trying to get students to agree with us that math describes the world, we should be wary of giving them problems that require a leap of faith or willful suspension of disbelief if we can help it.  (&quot;Tomas and Troy come across a water hose and turn it on.  Instead of spraying each other, they decide to do math with it.&quot;  Get real Mr. Wolf, they&#039;d say.  By the way, the water hose &quot;problem&quot; has already been done so much better on this blog, it&#039;s almost not even fair to pick on it.)

All this to say, at some point in my career I&#039;ve given a problem like every last one of these to my kids, and even though I can&#039;t articulate it for all of them, I am starting to see why I won&#039;t anymore (except of course, when they show up in EOC review packets...)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While these problems don&#8217;t immediately jump out at us as detrimental to a student&#8217;s understanding of how math applies to the world, they don&#8217;t do anything to help.  One way to redeem many of these is to retool them so that the connection between the math and the context is more clear.</p>
<p>I agree with Dave as well.  To get someone to properly think about the problems, you basically would have to tell them &#8220;forget the unicorns and the cubits,&#8221; &#8220;forget that it&#8217;s a lightpole,&#8221; or &#8220;forget why the taxes are different.&#8221;  It&#8217;s like, though the context isn&#8217;t patently false, it still somehow obscures the underlying math.  In order to understand the problems, the context needs to be stripped away.  In a &#8220;good&#8221; applications problem, it seems, the math derives naturally from the context.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if this has been addressed before, but I think that if we&#8217;re trying to get students to agree with us that math describes the world, we should be wary of giving them problems that require a leap of faith or willful suspension of disbelief if we can help it.  (&#8220;Tomas and Troy come across a water hose and turn it on.  Instead of spraying each other, they decide to do math with it.&#8221;  Get real Mr. Wolf, they&#8217;d say.  By the way, the water hose &#8220;problem&#8221; has already been done so much better on this blog, it&#8217;s almost not even fair to pick on it.)</p>
<p>All this to say, at some point in my career I&#8217;ve given a problem like every last one of these to my kids, and even though I can&#8217;t articulate it for all of them, I am starting to see why I won&#8217;t anymore (except of course, when they show up in EOC review packets&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-275037</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-275037</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[gasstationwithoutpumps: I think your solution might be cheating: all these problems would be better with alcohol. ;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gasstationwithoutpumps: I think your solution might be cheating: all these problems would be better with alcohol. ;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-275027</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-275027</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Right, it&#039;s a lousy problem for plenty of reasons, but, for whatever it&#039;s worth, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s pseudocontext. By definition, the problem has to be attempting to represent reality before we can accuse it of misrepresenting it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, it&#8217;s a lousy problem for plenty of reasons, but, for whatever it&#8217;s worth, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s pseudocontext. By definition, the problem has to be attempting to represent reality before we can accuse it of misrepresenting it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Shawn Cornally		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-275019</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shawn Cornally]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-275019</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In a cubicle somewhere inside Pearson Education: &quot;I know what will get girls to like math! Unicorns!&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a cubicle somewhere inside Pearson Education: &#8220;I know what will get girls to like math! Unicorns!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: gasstationwithoutpumps		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-274904</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gasstationwithoutpumps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-274904</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Pwolf,

Different city or different state.  Tax rates are not uniform around the country.  The big problem with the question was that it is not clear whether the &quot;dinner bill&quot; includes tax or not (usually they do) nor whether it includes service charges or not.  So the question suffers mainly from vagueness, not from pseudocontext.

A more realistic version of the question would be something like:  You have a $35 charge on your credit card for a business dinner which you want to be reimbursed on, but you are not allowed to be reimbursed for alcohol and you had a $3 beer with the dinner.  Compute how much you are allowed to be reimbursed, given that the sales tax is 9.25% and you tip 15%. (The tax and tip attributable to the alcohol purchase are also not reimbursable.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pwolf,</p>
<p>Different city or different state.  Tax rates are not uniform around the country.  The big problem with the question was that it is not clear whether the &#8220;dinner bill&#8221; includes tax or not (usually they do) nor whether it includes service charges or not.  So the question suffers mainly from vagueness, not from pseudocontext.</p>
<p>A more realistic version of the question would be something like:  You have a $35 charge on your credit card for a business dinner which you want to be reimbursed on, but you are not allowed to be reimbursed for alcohol and you had a $3 beer with the dinner.  Compute how much you are allowed to be reimbursed, given that the sales tax is 9.25% and you tip 15%. (The tax and tip attributable to the alcohol purchase are also not reimbursable.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: gasstationwithoutpumps		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-274903</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gasstationwithoutpumps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 17:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-274903</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jerzy,  I like the cookie context much better than the dartboard one, since a uniform distribution of chips (horizontally, not vertically) in a cookie is a reasonable model.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerzy,  I like the cookie context much better than the dartboard one, since a uniform distribution of chips (horizontally, not vertically) in a cookie is a reasonable model.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nick Daniels		</title>
		<link>/2011/ps-pseudorejects/#comment-274822</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Daniels]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 00:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=8872#comment-274822</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That last one is made up and I claim my prize.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last one is made up and I claim my prize.</p>
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