Comments on: Running On Resentment

By: Tom

Tom — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:58:50 +0000

Mr. Vaudrey and Zeno-

I’m not arguing the stated point- that good education can happen with or without technology- but that NYT’s article is full of the same thing Dan is criticizing in the post here. It does little except over simplify a complex issue (using some really weak logic) while attempting to polarize the issue as much as possible.

Just because people agree with you doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be analyzing what they’re saying and how they’re saying it.

By: Mr. Vaudrey

Mr. Vaudrey — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:48:35 +0000

Ah. @Zeno got to it first.

By: Mr. Vaudrey

Mr. Vaudrey — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:47:43 +0000

Has anyone mentioned this yet?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/technology/at-waldorf-school-in-silicon-valley-technology-can-wait.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general

I haven’t read each of the pages of responses above, but I’m certain that somebody pointed out that while Technology is a helpful tool, it is merely a tool. A jigsaw in the hand an inexperienced user won’t generate the type of wardrobe or cabinet that a master crafstman (or woman) could create.

Likewise, a computer in some classes [at my school] is simply an expensive paperweight used to take attendance.

In summation, technology is helpful, but great education can happen without it.

By: louise

louise — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:13:14 +0000

Gilbert, our district has a specialty small school of design and construction, so they are teaching students these specialty skills.
Just as Geometry was, only a couple of hundred years ago, a university discipline for a few clever people, and has become a requirement for 16-year-olds, now we have subjects that were post-high-school vocational subjects coming down for high school students.
I think this is one of those cycles coming back. The vocational ed studies (plumbing, electrical, machine shop, carpentry, sewing, cooking) all went away. Now we are bringing back specialties as long as they are office based, white collar work.
I think this is why I like Dan’s ideas so much – they are accessible to the doers. Students can themselves run up and down steps and elevators, climb up hills and look at rolls of paper. The next time they do those things, the math springs up in their heads. It’s not white collar, confined to the office/school. It’s there all the time, hands on, in their brains. At least that’s what students complain to me about (“help, help, I’m thinking in math!!”)

By: jsb16

jsb16 — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:15:49 +0000

I’ve been known to tell students, “When I was your age, I had to get on my bike and go to the library to do my research papers. Don’t tell me you can’t check Edmodo because your phone’s battery died…”

By: Gilbert Bernstein

Gilbert Bernstein — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:49:02 +0000

But why would you want to teach high school students to use any of that stuff?

By: gasstationwithoutpumps

gasstationwithoutpumps — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 19:38:08 +0000

AutoCAD used to be too expensive for a school to buy, but there are now free and cheap choices.

Google Sketchup has a somewhat awkward interface, but is free and is sometimes used by professionals.

Blender is free, popular for 3D modeling, and is the design system of choice for many 3D printing shops.

Even AutoCAD (an overpriced system for a very long time) now has free student software at http://students.autodesk.com/

By: Gilbert Bernstein

Gilbert Bernstein — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:35:03 +0000

Sorry louise. I didn’t mean to give the impression that engineering students shouldn’t use autocad. They probably should. (I don’t have personal experience with it, so I don’t want to say definitely) They definitely should at least learn it, or an equivalent computer drafting program; they’re definitely going to need to know it in the workplace. On the other hand, I don’t see any reason why high school students need to learn to use specialized engineering software…

My point in bringing up CAD, was simply that it is a technology which was very disruptive, was not uniformly beneficial (e.g. you did say that 15 people lost their jobs), and still has significant usability issues to this day, many of which resulted from a lack of attention to how CAD programs had to “inter-operate” with existing practices, such as drawing on paper.

CAD software is not a passive tool. It places demands and conditions on its users that they must meet to make use of it. All software does this to different degrees, including Ed-tech. Simultaneously ignoring what demands ed-tech makes of students and teachers while pushing for adoption is a recipe for trouble.

By: louise

louise — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:10:28 +0000

whoa! Autocad? I had Autocad 1.0 in 1984. 15 layers, programming with Basic. I worked in a company with a roomful of traditional drafters. I had it 2 weeks, and then went in and told the 15 drafters they had better learn this new technology or they would be out of a job.
One year later, the entire room had been replace by one person with Autocad (probably a higher version number)
And yet, now, almost 30 years later, I see kids in high school who never learn drafting on a computer. They spend 4 years drawing on a table. They might get to use Paint, because it’s free on the computer.
I understand having the experience of the history of drafting, but to never experience what has been done for now an entire generation seems crazy to me. This is not new stuff, people, it’s standard technology and we haven’t even started to incorporate it. 27 years. How long should we wait, in case it’s a passing fad?

By: zette

zette — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:27:03 +0000

I get to hear moms talk about how their three year old kids hold a “real book” and tap the pages expecting them to talk, characters move, and flip to a new picture. Is that education? vs. the increasing trend of a Waldorf education. My son today put a quilt on his shoulders, extended his arms and flew. His friend near by asked “what are we playing?”. The response, “be whatever you want to be”. The friend then sat down in front of a plastic game with defined rules…. As one Google parent said….we are making applications so easy, anyone can use them. More harm will come to my child’s education by letting them use computers before college than not.

Until computers can give you the sense of what a lily smells like, what it feels like to have a butterfly flutter by… Get the kids outside.