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	Comments on: Sweat The Small Things	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 05:36:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		By: belated beginnings &#124; Everything that rises must converge		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-521376</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[belated beginnings &#124; Everything that rises must converge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 05:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-521376</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Sweat The Small Things [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Sweat The Small Things [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Foster Wallace gets it-details matter &#171; Quantum Progress		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-357418</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Foster Wallace gets it-details matter &#171; Quantum Progress]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 06:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-357418</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] This brings me back to the original point: attention to details–even those that most people don&#8217;t even notice (or read)–is the hallmark of a truly great professional. It&#8217;s something I want to strive for (even if that will never be evident from all the mistakes in this blog). And I&#8217;m not alone–just a few weeks ago, Dan Meyer was blogging about the difference between &#8220;how many birds won&#8217;t get a worm?&#8221; and &#8220;How many more birds than worms are t... [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] This brings me back to the original point: attention to details–even those that most people don&#8217;t even notice (or read)–is the hallmark of a truly great professional. It&#8217;s something I want to strive for (even if that will never be evident from all the mistakes in this blog). And I&#8217;m not alone–just a few weeks ago, Dan Meyer was blogging about the difference between &#8220;how many birds won&#8217;t get a worm?&#8221; and &#8220;How many more birds than worms are t&#8230; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sweat The Small Things &#124; Rick Scheibner, Counselor		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-352355</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sweat The Small Things &#124; Rick Scheibner, Counselor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-352355</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] viaÂ dy/dan Â» Blog Archive Â» Sweat The Small Things. &#8220;There are five birds and three worms.&#8221; That&#8217;s the set-up. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] viaÂ dy/dan Â» Blog Archive Â» Sweat The Small Things. &#8220;There are five birds and three worms.&#8221; That&#8217;s the set-up. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: AndrewR Coulson		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-350113</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AndrewR Coulson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-350113</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This TEDx video of non-profit MIND Research Institute co-founder Dr. Matthew Peterson explains some of the thinking behind MIND&#039;s non-verbal approach to presenting math problems: http://bit.ly/onhTBM
(the penguin mentioned above)
Full disclosure: I&#039;m the President of MIND&#039;s Education Division.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This TEDx video of non-profit MIND Research Institute co-founder Dr. Matthew Peterson explains some of the thinking behind MIND&#8217;s non-verbal approach to presenting math problems: <a href="http://bit.ly/onhTBM" rel="nofollow ugc">http://bit.ly/onhTBM</a><br />
(the penguin mentioned above)<br />
Full disclosure: I&#8217;m the President of MIND&#8217;s Education Division.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex Eckert		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-349675</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Eckert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-349675</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What if two of the five birds are angry?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if two of the five birds are angry?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Danielson		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-349410</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Danielson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-349410</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Dan:&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Teachers’ biggest affordance is their ability to problematize material continuously, with their students, which lets them start with more ambiguous, more interesting, and less linguistically demanding material.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Nice pithy sentence here. Well put, my man.

I would also add it is not only an affordance but a challenge. As one of those who both writes and teaches, I&#039;m not sure I can recall the last time I launched a task from the book. Oh, the task is often &lt;i&gt;in&lt;/i&gt; the book, but the book isn&#039;t where our attention is as a class.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Dan:</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>Teachers’ biggest affordance is their ability to problematize material continuously, with their students, which lets them start with more ambiguous, more interesting, and less linguistically demanding material.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nice pithy sentence here. Well put, my man.</p>
<p>I would also add it is not only an affordance but a challenge. As one of those who both writes and teaches, I&#8217;m not sure I can recall the last time I launched a task from the book. Oh, the task is often <i>in</i> the book, but the book isn&#8217;t where our attention is as a class.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-349331</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-349331</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Jason&lt;/strong&gt;: In many other cases, so as to be absolutely precise. As already pointed out, even the problem above is ambiguous: what if the birds aren’t hungry? what if one bird hogs all the worms? To account for that the question would have to be reworded into something like “Given each bird attempts to get a worm and gets at most one worm, how many birds won’t get a worm?” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

It makes so much sense to handle those exceptions verbally, in conversation, &lt;em&gt;after&lt;/em&gt; they&#039;ve occurred to students, rather than in text, before anyone has thought about birds who aren&#039;t hungry. For one, you&#039;re helping students problematize life rather than problematizing it for them. For the other, some large fraction of your students were already assuming each bird got a worm. Those students are burdened with extra text if you lock down all the exceptions in writing.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Jason&lt;/strong&gt;: A textbook author in particular can’t expect to be around to make clarifications, so they have to go for the more exact language (or more usually, resorting to mathematical vocabulary which is more exact to begin with, hence the “how many more’).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right. The constraints on teachers and authors are so different. A lot of authors I work with would modify their own problems if they were using them live, in the classroom. I wonder how many teachers treat textbook problems with the same flexibility. Teachers&#039; biggest affordance is their ability to problematize material continuously, &lt;em&gt;with&lt;/em&gt; their students, which lets them &lt;em&gt;start&lt;/em&gt; with more ambiguous, more interesting, and less linguistically demanding material.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><strong>Jason</strong>: In many other cases, so as to be absolutely precise. As already pointed out, even the problem above is ambiguous: what if the birds aren’t hungry? what if one bird hogs all the worms? To account for that the question would have to be reworded into something like “Given each bird attempts to get a worm and gets at most one worm, how many birds won’t get a worm?” </p></blockquote>
<p>It makes so much sense to handle those exceptions verbally, in conversation, <em>after</em> they&#8217;ve occurred to students, rather than in text, before anyone has thought about birds who aren&#8217;t hungry. For one, you&#8217;re helping students problematize life rather than problematizing it for them. For the other, some large fraction of your students were already assuming each bird got a worm. Those students are burdened with extra text if you lock down all the exceptions in writing.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Jason</strong>: A textbook author in particular can’t expect to be around to make clarifications, so they have to go for the more exact language (or more usually, resorting to mathematical vocabulary which is more exact to begin with, hence the “how many more’).</p></blockquote>
<p>Right. The constraints on teachers and authors are so different. A lot of authors I work with would modify their own problems if they were using them live, in the classroom. I wonder how many teachers treat textbook problems with the same flexibility. Teachers&#8217; biggest affordance is their ability to problematize material continuously, <em>with</em> their students, which lets them <em>start</em> with more ambiguous, more interesting, and less linguistically demanding material.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Dyer		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-349288</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Dyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-349288</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I deal with a lot of English language learners so I have to think about this sort of thing all the time.

&lt;em&gt;What is the reason why math problems have to be worded in the most complicated manner, leaving students only to guess at what the question is really asking, rather than be straight forward and ask the intended question like “how many birds won’t get worms?”&lt;/em&gt;

In this case, so as to be general, so it applies to other problems where you ask &quot;how many more X than Y?&quot;

In many other cases, so as to be absolutely precise. As already pointed out, even the problem above is ambiguous: what if the birds aren&#039;t hungry? what if one bird hogs all the worms? To account for that the question would have to be reworded into something like &quot;Given each bird attempts to get a worm and gets at most one worm, how many birds won&#039;t get a worm?&quot; The piling on of sub-clauses can make ghastly prose that would make my just-learned-English-last-year students have their heads explode. Hence it is worthwhile to make sacrifices for simplicity, but I have had test questions before where my attempt at linguistic simplicity backfired and I had a student interpret a problem in a different, perfectly valid way.

A textbook author in particular can&#039;t expect to be around to make clarifications, so they have to go for the more exact language (or more usually, resorting to mathematical vocabulary which is more exact to begin with, hence the &quot;how many more&#039;).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I deal with a lot of English language learners so I have to think about this sort of thing all the time.</p>
<p><em>What is the reason why math problems have to be worded in the most complicated manner, leaving students only to guess at what the question is really asking, rather than be straight forward and ask the intended question like “how many birds won’t get worms?”</em></p>
<p>In this case, so as to be general, so it applies to other problems where you ask &#8220;how many more X than Y?&#8221;</p>
<p>In many other cases, so as to be absolutely precise. As already pointed out, even the problem above is ambiguous: what if the birds aren&#8217;t hungry? what if one bird hogs all the worms? To account for that the question would have to be reworded into something like &#8220;Given each bird attempts to get a worm and gets at most one worm, how many birds won&#8217;t get a worm?&#8221; The piling on of sub-clauses can make ghastly prose that would make my just-learned-English-last-year students have their heads explode. Hence it is worthwhile to make sacrifices for simplicity, but I have had test questions before where my attempt at linguistic simplicity backfired and I had a student interpret a problem in a different, perfectly valid way.</p>
<p>A textbook author in particular can&#8217;t expect to be around to make clarifications, so they have to go for the more exact language (or more usually, resorting to mathematical vocabulary which is more exact to begin with, hence the &#8220;how many more&#8217;).</p>
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		<title>
		By: James C.		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-349050</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-349050</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Andy,

I think you bring up a good point. The immediate question that comes to mind for me is why is the answer more intuitive for primary students when asked &quot;How many birds won&#039;t get a worm&quot;? Is it a listening comprehension issue? When worded the second way, do the students kind of zone out mid-sentence and forget what they&#039;re being asked? Or is there something else going on there?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy,</p>
<p>I think you bring up a good point. The immediate question that comes to mind for me is why is the answer more intuitive for primary students when asked &#8220;How many birds won&#8217;t get a worm&#8221;? Is it a listening comprehension issue? When worded the second way, do the students kind of zone out mid-sentence and forget what they&#8217;re being asked? Or is there something else going on there?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andy		</title>
		<link>/2011/sweat-the-small-things/#comment-348906</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12041#comment-348906</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But isn&#039;t that the point of asking the question in a particular way?  One could write:

5 - 3 =

That, too, tests something different than &quot;how many birds won&#039;t get worms?&quot;  One hasn&#039;t improved students&#039; understanding of math by simply changing the nature of the question.

If a question is vague or ambiguous, that&#039;s one thing, but there&#039;s nothing wrong with a question that requires a little more analysis and thought.  Those kinds of questions just test something different than 5 - 3 = ?.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But isn&#8217;t that the point of asking the question in a particular way?  One could write:</p>
<p>5 &#8211; 3 =</p>
<p>That, too, tests something different than &#8220;how many birds won&#8217;t get worms?&#8221;  One hasn&#8217;t improved students&#8217; understanding of math by simply changing the nature of the question.</p>
<p>If a question is vague or ambiguous, that&#8217;s one thing, but there&#8217;s nothing wrong with a question that requires a little more analysis and thought.  Those kinds of questions just test something different than 5 &#8211; 3 = ?.</p>
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