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	Comments on: [3ACTS] Joulies	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 07:41:17 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Zack Miller		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-601447</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zack Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 07:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-601447</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I put this one to work in a two-hour Alg 2 block yesterday. The hook makes this one of my favorite tasks. Kids plead to know, &quot;Does this really work??&quot; After we chuck around some predictions, we got down to business. We need to create a function that models the regular cup of tea, and then modify the parameters to create a new function modeling a cup of tea with Joulies if Joulies worked perfectly as advertised (of course so we can compare to the real &quot;tea w/Joulies&quot; data).

This task authentically prompted many things:
1) As Dan suggested, kids get to think about what needs to be defined to make this question answerable, which gets them to &quot;what is the perfect temp?&quot;

2) Students quickly decided it was exponential decay, but when writing the function for no-Joulies, we have a serious excess data problem: we have the temp at every single minute! Exactly how many data points should we work with if we want to know the parameters in y=ab^x + c? Two? Three? Four?

3) Tutorial of Wolfram Alpha: Let&#039;s go with 3 data points. We can plug each one into y=ab^x + c to give us three equations. Solve that system please, wolfram! And now we start thinking back to our big question: how do a, b, and c help us find our &quot;cool-down&quot; rate so we can triple it!

4) But also halve it at some point so the tea doesn&#039;t get cold? Wait, what? And looking at the real Joulies graph, this isn&#039;t a clean exponential anymore! Piece-wise functions, anyone?

5) Tutorial of Desmos: Think you found the function? Type it in and compare your graph to the real thing. Extensions: How would this be different if it were in a freezer? A sauna? Let&#039;s make some parameters DYNAMIC.

So much fun!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I put this one to work in a two-hour Alg 2 block yesterday. The hook makes this one of my favorite tasks. Kids plead to know, &#8220;Does this really work??&#8221; After we chuck around some predictions, we got down to business. We need to create a function that models the regular cup of tea, and then modify the parameters to create a new function modeling a cup of tea with Joulies if Joulies worked perfectly as advertised (of course so we can compare to the real &#8220;tea w/Joulies&#8221; data).</p>
<p>This task authentically prompted many things:<br />
1) As Dan suggested, kids get to think about what needs to be defined to make this question answerable, which gets them to &#8220;what is the perfect temp?&#8221;</p>
<p>2) Students quickly decided it was exponential decay, but when writing the function for no-Joulies, we have a serious excess data problem: we have the temp at every single minute! Exactly how many data points should we work with if we want to know the parameters in y=ab^x + c? Two? Three? Four?</p>
<p>3) Tutorial of Wolfram Alpha: Let&#8217;s go with 3 data points. We can plug each one into y=ab^x + c to give us three equations. Solve that system please, wolfram! And now we start thinking back to our big question: how do a, b, and c help us find our &#8220;cool-down&#8221; rate so we can triple it!</p>
<p>4) But also halve it at some point so the tea doesn&#8217;t get cold? Wait, what? And looking at the real Joulies graph, this isn&#8217;t a clean exponential anymore! Piece-wise functions, anyone?</p>
<p>5) Tutorial of Desmos: Think you found the function? Type it in and compare your graph to the real thing. Extensions: How would this be different if it were in a freezer? A sauna? Let&#8217;s make some parameters DYNAMIC.</p>
<p>So much fun!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bowen Kerins		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-390270</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bowen Kerins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 18:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-390270</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It also fits in well with the &quot;make a guess&quot; entry point (and general perserverance).  Interactive tech is great for this -- I think a big reason is its personal nature.  Only Angry Birds will know you sucked at that level, and only the grapher will know your initial choice of axes was terrible.  No matter how much I try in classrooms, kids remain afraid to jump in with initial guesses, fearful that it&#039;s being graded or something.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It also fits in well with the &#8220;make a guess&#8221; entry point (and general perserverance).  Interactive tech is great for this &#8212; I think a big reason is its personal nature.  Only Angry Birds will know you sucked at that level, and only the grapher will know your initial choice of axes was terrible.  No matter how much I try in classrooms, kids remain afraid to jump in with initial guesses, fearful that it&#8217;s being graded or something.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-390249</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-390249</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@&lt;strong&gt;Bowen&lt;/strong&gt;, thanks for your thoughts on the piece. I especially like the picture you paint of dynamic changes and re-adjustments of the graph. Hopefully, our best and brightest are hard at work on that kind of platform. Fingers crossed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<strong>Bowen</strong>, thanks for your thoughts on the piece. I especially like the picture you paint of dynamic changes and re-adjustments of the graph. Hopefully, our best and brightest are hard at work on that kind of platform. Fingers crossed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Anderson		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-390239</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Anderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-390239</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Dan Meyer

My mistake on the graphs, I found the file that has the plain and joulies graph drawn, so ignore that bit of commentary.

As far as the domain goes, I thought it was important to see the tea level out to the ambient temp. There were many students (weak 11th and 12th graders) who made the mistake of not reading the scale and initially drew their graphs where the tea was at 0 F after a couple of hours. Seems like an important point.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan Meyer</p>
<p>My mistake on the graphs, I found the file that has the plain and joulies graph drawn, so ignore that bit of commentary.</p>
<p>As far as the domain goes, I thought it was important to see the tea level out to the ambient temp. There were many students (weak 11th and 12th graders) who made the mistake of not reading the scale and initially drew their graphs where the tea was at 0 F after a couple of hours. Seems like an important point.</p>
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		<title>
		By: mr bombastic		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-389959</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mr bombastic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-389959</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One advantage of video is that it gives instant credibility to the situation being modeled.  On the other hand, comparing the same curve with different domains is a very, very appealing idea to me for a class that can handle it.    

I also agree that it is highly desirable for the students to come up with their own scale when they make their graphs in Act II, but this can be time consuming and/or a bit of a momentum killer depending on your class. 

I see Dan’s lesson as a highly structured lesson with predictable responses that could be done in a class period.  If you take away very much of this structure, I think it would be tough to get this done in a class period.

The six hour domain seems very un-Dan like — neglecting the central question in order to force in an unrelated topic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One advantage of video is that it gives instant credibility to the situation being modeled.  On the other hand, comparing the same curve with different domains is a very, very appealing idea to me for a class that can handle it.    </p>
<p>I also agree that it is highly desirable for the students to come up with their own scale when they make their graphs in Act II, but this can be time consuming and/or a bit of a momentum killer depending on your class. </p>
<p>I see Dan’s lesson as a highly structured lesson with predictable responses that could be done in a class period.  If you take away very much of this structure, I think it would be tough to get this done in a class period.</p>
<p>The six hour domain seems very un-Dan like — neglecting the central question in order to force in an unrelated topic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bowen Kerins		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-389912</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bowen Kerins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-389912</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the one-hour timeframe is better than six hours.  More importantly, though, you&#039;re running across limitations of video technology by having to make this decision at all.

To me the &quot;best&quot; solution would be to let students decide what their axes limits should be, then see the graph populated.  A tablet-PC environment could make this happen.  A static video takes this decision out of the hands of students because you&#039;re forced to select this in advance, or to set up a limited number of options.  The same is true for the vertical axis -- my first reaction to the presentation was &quot;Why does the vertical start at zero degrees Fahrenheit??&quot; And what led to the maximum being 160 degrees?

I&#039;d want students making those choices as well, ideally in an environment where a quick change doesn&#039;t cost them anything.  Even when students are asked in advance to create the initial graph, leave the axes totally unlabeled and let them make all the decisions.

I also think this flexibility would lead to students coming to different conclusions about the effectiveness of the Joulies.  A one-hour or thirty-minute graph makes it look like the Joulies are doing a pretty good job, while the six-hour graph makes it look like they do nothing most of the time.  It could even lead to a cool &quot;how to lie with data&quot; conversation, or at least an important conversation about the nonlinearity of the graph (to meet 8.F.5).  Often students think all graphs and functions are linear.  The short-term graph of the &quot;no Joulies&quot; seems linear enough... then boom it ain&#039;t!

I&#039;m also a little confused by your student work example -- the graphs show that the Joulies version stays in the &quot;perfect&quot; zone for more than twice as long (75 minutes versus 30).  So I would not agree with the student&#039;s assessment that they &quot;stay perfect for almost exactly the same amount of time&quot;.  The six-hour versus one-hour makes a big difference here, I suppose.

Last, two nitpicks: the video talks of coffee but then presents tea (no big deal but why use tea and not coffee?).  And please show me an actual eighth grader with the quality handwriting exhibited in the &quot;student work&quot; ;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the one-hour timeframe is better than six hours.  More importantly, though, you&#8217;re running across limitations of video technology by having to make this decision at all.</p>
<p>To me the &#8220;best&#8221; solution would be to let students decide what their axes limits should be, then see the graph populated.  A tablet-PC environment could make this happen.  A static video takes this decision out of the hands of students because you&#8217;re forced to select this in advance, or to set up a limited number of options.  The same is true for the vertical axis &#8212; my first reaction to the presentation was &#8220;Why does the vertical start at zero degrees Fahrenheit??&#8221; And what led to the maximum being 160 degrees?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d want students making those choices as well, ideally in an environment where a quick change doesn&#8217;t cost them anything.  Even when students are asked in advance to create the initial graph, leave the axes totally unlabeled and let them make all the decisions.</p>
<p>I also think this flexibility would lead to students coming to different conclusions about the effectiveness of the Joulies.  A one-hour or thirty-minute graph makes it look like the Joulies are doing a pretty good job, while the six-hour graph makes it look like they do nothing most of the time.  It could even lead to a cool &#8220;how to lie with data&#8221; conversation, or at least an important conversation about the nonlinearity of the graph (to meet 8.F.5).  Often students think all graphs and functions are linear.  The short-term graph of the &#8220;no Joulies&#8221; seems linear enough&#8230; then boom it ain&#8217;t!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also a little confused by your student work example &#8212; the graphs show that the Joulies version stays in the &#8220;perfect&#8221; zone for more than twice as long (75 minutes versus 30).  So I would not agree with the student&#8217;s assessment that they &#8220;stay perfect for almost exactly the same amount of time&#8221;.  The six-hour versus one-hour makes a big difference here, I suppose.</p>
<p>Last, two nitpicks: the video talks of coffee but then presents tea (no big deal but why use tea and not coffee?).  And please show me an actual eighth grader with the quality handwriting exhibited in the &#8220;student work&#8221; ;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: gasstationwithoutpumps		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-389905</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gasstationwithoutpumps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-389905</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@mr bombastic.

Fair enough.  I agree with you that the physics of the joulies (with the storage of energy in the solid-liquid transition inside) is probably beyond the scope of a high-school physics class.

If this were to be a consumer math class, I&#039;d probably want to compare three approaches:

1) using a plain ceramic travel mug with lid.
2) using a stainless steel vacuum thermos cup
3) using joulies in the ceramic travel mug

(maybe adding a 4th approach, of using the thermos and joulies).

The students would have to be encouraged to come up with a relevant metric (perhaps how long the liquid is between 100 and 110 degrees Fahrenheit?).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mr bombastic.</p>
<p>Fair enough.  I agree with you that the physics of the joulies (with the storage of energy in the solid-liquid transition inside) is probably beyond the scope of a high-school physics class.</p>
<p>If this were to be a consumer math class, I&#8217;d probably want to compare three approaches:</p>
<p>1) using a plain ceramic travel mug with lid.<br />
2) using a stainless steel vacuum thermos cup<br />
3) using joulies in the ceramic travel mug</p>
<p>(maybe adding a 4th approach, of using the thermos and joulies).</p>
<p>The students would have to be encouraged to come up with a relevant metric (perhaps how long the liquid is between 100 and 110 degrees Fahrenheit?).</p>
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		<title>
		By: DMT		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-389771</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DMT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-389771</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The first question that comes to my mind is whether or not removing liquid peridically (mimicing actual drinking) would have an effect. If we assume that some heat is stored in the rocks/Joulies and that heat is later transfered back to the liquid, then it seems reasonable there would be more of an effect with less liquid over time.

This combined with a shorter time scale would at least be a more &quot;realisitc&quot; graph as to the effectiveness of the Joulies in my opinion.

The longer time with a full glass would make a nice control and a good way to show that 65 degrees as Dan points out.

My two cents.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first question that comes to my mind is whether or not removing liquid peridically (mimicing actual drinking) would have an effect. If we assume that some heat is stored in the rocks/Joulies and that heat is later transfered back to the liquid, then it seems reasonable there would be more of an effect with less liquid over time.</p>
<p>This combined with a shorter time scale would at least be a more &#8220;realisitc&#8221; graph as to the effectiveness of the Joulies in my opinion.</p>
<p>The longer time with a full glass would make a nice control and a good way to show that 65 degrees as Dan points out.</p>
<p>My two cents.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-389704</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 03:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-389704</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the feedback, &lt;strong&gt;Dan&lt;/strong&gt;. I haven&#039;t begun the Pearson revisions yet and I&#039;d like to pack in your suggestions at the same time. Are you saying you&#039;d like a screenshot of the last frame of each graph video? What do you need that pausing the video couldn&#039;t accomplish?

Also, what&#039;s your take on shortening the domain to one hour? That 65Â° realization might not surface.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the feedback, <strong>Dan</strong>. I haven&#8217;t begun the Pearson revisions yet and I&#8217;d like to pack in your suggestions at the same time. Are you saying you&#8217;d like a screenshot of the last frame of each graph video? What do you need that pausing the video couldn&#8217;t accomplish?</p>
<p>Also, what&#8217;s your take on shortening the domain to one hour? That 65Â° realization might not surface.</p>
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		<title>
		By: mr bombastic		</title>
		<link>/2012/3acts-joulies/#comment-389633</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mr bombastic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=12962#comment-389633</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I hope I didn’t come across as insisting on a firewall between math and science.  If you want to build an algebra 2 exponential model unit around Newton’s law of cooling I am with you (but not if they are going to use log plots to develop the formula).  I just don’t see the julie lesson fitting into that unit.  We have no way to model the graph for the julie.  It is true that the tail of the julie case matches the normal case, but the tail has nothing to do with the main question about whether the julies work or not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope I didn’t come across as insisting on a firewall between math and science.  If you want to build an algebra 2 exponential model unit around Newton’s law of cooling I am with you (but not if they are going to use log plots to develop the formula).  I just don’t see the julie lesson fitting into that unit.  We have no way to model the graph for the julie.  It is true that the tail of the julie case matches the normal case, but the tail has nothing to do with the main question about whether the julies work or not.</p>
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