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	Comments on: Computers Are Not A Natural Medium For Doing Mathematics	</title>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Computers Are Not A Natural Medium For Doing Mathematics, Ctd.		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-987080</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Computers Are Not A Natural Medium For Doing Mathematics, Ctd.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-987080</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Computers Are Not A Natural Medium For Doing Mathematics [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Computers Are Not A Natural Medium For Doing Mathematics [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Math-o-mir v1.71 build 2 &#171; Math-o-mir blog		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-717634</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Math-o-mir v1.71 build 2 &#171; Math-o-mir blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 13:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-717634</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] There is a very interesting article about whether it is possible to write math on computers: &#8220;Computers Are Not A Natural Medium For Doing Mathematics&#8220;. Well, I would say, computers are the natural medium for doing mathematics, but the keyboard [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] There is a very interesting article about whether it is possible to write math on computers: &#8220;Computers Are Not A Natural Medium For Doing Mathematics&#8220;. Well, I would say, computers are the natural medium for doing mathematics, but the keyboard [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Topping		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-598525</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Topping]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 22:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-598525</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am not a believer in &quot;digital paper&quot;. As long as we are looking for something that electronically simulates paper and pencil, we will be limiting ourselves to only what can be done with paper and pencil. Our digital simulation will only approach, not meet or exceed, the positive qualities of the medium it simulates.

While TeX has its merits and its fans, in many ways its presence has slowed progress toward a better math UI. Its low price (free) and ubiquity has aided its adoption, but its nature is such that it is difficult to improve. To make matters worse, its creator, Don Knuth, dictated that the TeX name can only be applied to systems that process TeX as defined when it was invented. In other words, any attempts to improve TeX can&#039;t be called TeX!

Unfortunately, most of the market&#039;s attention on new technologies, user interfaces, mobile devices, etc. does not include mathematics. I do believe this will happen in time. When it does, its capabilities will be far beyond those of paper and pencil. Our digital math facilities just need time to mature.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not a believer in &#8220;digital paper&#8221;. As long as we are looking for something that electronically simulates paper and pencil, we will be limiting ourselves to only what can be done with paper and pencil. Our digital simulation will only approach, not meet or exceed, the positive qualities of the medium it simulates.</p>
<p>While TeX has its merits and its fans, in many ways its presence has slowed progress toward a better math UI. Its low price (free) and ubiquity has aided its adoption, but its nature is such that it is difficult to improve. To make matters worse, its creator, Don Knuth, dictated that the TeX name can only be applied to systems that process TeX as defined when it was invented. In other words, any attempts to improve TeX can&#8217;t be called TeX!</p>
<p>Unfortunately, most of the market&#8217;s attention on new technologies, user interfaces, mobile devices, etc. does not include mathematics. I do believe this will happen in time. When it does, its capabilities will be far beyond those of paper and pencil. Our digital math facilities just need time to mature.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MRE8		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-596740</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MRE8]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 16:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-596740</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kevin, I am VERY enthusiastic about leveraging technology in general. I have all faith that we/they will find a solution. Many companies are a few ideas away from making digital &quot;paper&quot; a practicle reality (think sheet of paper that functions like an ipad). I guess I&#039;m just disappointed with the current state of what I&#039;ve observed in my - admittedly - narrow sample.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, I am VERY enthusiastic about leveraging technology in general. I have all faith that we/they will find a solution. Many companies are a few ideas away from making digital &#8220;paper&#8221; a practicle reality (think sheet of paper that functions like an ipad). I guess I&#8217;m just disappointed with the current state of what I&#8217;ve observed in my &#8211; admittedly &#8211; narrow sample.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin Hall		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-596637</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 15:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-596637</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[MRE8, I think those of us who are enthusiastic about these systems just believe the problems you&#039;re describing are solvable.  It&#039;s pretty easy to imagine, 10 years from now, students doing Carnegie Learning work with &quot;pencil and paper&quot; (stylus and tablet), as long as the software has decent handwriting-recognition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MRE8, I think those of us who are enthusiastic about these systems just believe the problems you&#8217;re describing are solvable.  It&#8217;s pretty easy to imagine, 10 years from now, students doing Carnegie Learning work with &#8220;pencil and paper&#8221; (stylus and tablet), as long as the software has decent handwriting-recognition.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MRE8		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-596298</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MRE8]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 08:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-596298</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Agreed! I am special education teacher in training, math is not traditionally my strong subject, but my current student teaching stint has forced me to quasi-master high school level geometry very quickly...and to acquire a new nemesis: Carnegie Math online. Really? While trying to accomplish the already impossible seeming task of massaging geometric theorems/formulas AND the prerequisite basic linear equation solving skills (that should have been learned last year) into reluctant teens with specific learning disabilities, emotional disturbances, and a hot text buzzing in their pocket, I have to also teach them the separate, non-transferable skill of using Carnegie Math&#039;s clumsy &quot;solver&quot; to solve for the radius of a circle given the area?!!!! That&#039;s why I have dry erase markers and laminated white paper always handy. I better stop here before this becomes a rant. 

I will admit that for the right student, higher level math on the computer can be rewarding. But, often, pen and paper is just more efficient and authentic - especially as geometry goes (we don&#039;t measure ANYTHING on a COMPUTER with a protractor...) I believe at least one part of the story is that computer based learning often gets support because it makes data collection and assessment easier for TEACHERS...

-end rant here-]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed! I am special education teacher in training, math is not traditionally my strong subject, but my current student teaching stint has forced me to quasi-master high school level geometry very quickly&#8230;and to acquire a new nemesis: Carnegie Math online. Really? While trying to accomplish the already impossible seeming task of massaging geometric theorems/formulas AND the prerequisite basic linear equation solving skills (that should have been learned last year) into reluctant teens with specific learning disabilities, emotional disturbances, and a hot text buzzing in their pocket, I have to also teach them the separate, non-transferable skill of using Carnegie Math&#8217;s clumsy &#8220;solver&#8221; to solve for the radius of a circle given the area?!!!! That&#8217;s why I have dry erase markers and laminated white paper always handy. I better stop here before this becomes a rant. </p>
<p>I will admit that for the right student, higher level math on the computer can be rewarding. But, often, pen and paper is just more efficient and authentic &#8211; especially as geometry goes (we don&#8217;t measure ANYTHING on a COMPUTER with a protractor&#8230;) I believe at least one part of the story is that computer based learning often gets support because it makes data collection and assessment easier for TEACHERS&#8230;</p>
<p>-end rant here-</p>
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		<title>
		By: Surf Movies		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-592114</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Surf Movies]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 18:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-592114</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think that we can make the same argument about texting. When all we had was the 10-key pad]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that we can make the same argument about texting. When all we had was the 10-key pad</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Key		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-581720</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Key]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-581720</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think that we can make the same argument about texting.  When all we had was the 10-key pad, it was really cumbersome to send even a simple text message.  (viz. &quot;texting is not a natural medium for communicating your thoughts)

Then we got &quot;T9 Word&quot; and things got a little better.  Then we got QWERTY keypads and things got easier still.

Can&#039;t we be optimistic that things will get better for us math nerds in re: using computers to communicate?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that we can make the same argument about texting.  When all we had was the 10-key pad, it was really cumbersome to send even a simple text message.  (viz. &#8220;texting is not a natural medium for communicating your thoughts)</p>
<p>Then we got &#8220;T9 Word&#8221; and things got a little better.  Then we got QWERTY keypads and things got easier still.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t we be optimistic that things will get better for us math nerds in re: using computers to communicate?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-581006</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-581006</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;josh g&lt;/strong&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;But why is this an either-or situation? If we agree that function notation is worth learning anyway, it doesn’t seem impossible for a kid to know that “sqrt(2)” means the same thing as what I write down as radical-sign-with-a-two-inside.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was in the faculty lounge at Stonybrook last week. Two members of the faculty were conferring and they were &lt;a href=&quot;http://twitpic.com/bds5bd&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;drawing on the chalkboard&lt;/a&gt; not because computers weren&#039;t readily available (they were) and not because the profs didn&#039;t know how to use them (I&#039;m sure they did) but because it wasn&#039;t the easiest, most natural medium for expression.

I agree that knowing more ways to express oneself (either in math or in language) is a good thing. It&#039;s also an investment, though. There are costs and benefits. I&#039;m open to arguments that the benefits outweigh the costs but I don&#039;t see it in this thread.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>josh g</strong>:</p>
<blockquote><p>But why is this an either-or situation? If we agree that function notation is worth learning anyway, it doesn’t seem impossible for a kid to know that “sqrt(2)” means the same thing as what I write down as radical-sign-with-a-two-inside.</p></blockquote>
<p>I was in the faculty lounge at Stonybrook last week. Two members of the faculty were conferring and they were <a href="http://twitpic.com/bds5bd" rel="nofollow">drawing on the chalkboard</a> not because computers weren&#8217;t readily available (they were) and not because the profs didn&#8217;t know how to use them (I&#8217;m sure they did) but because it wasn&#8217;t the easiest, most natural medium for expression.</p>
<p>I agree that knowing more ways to express oneself (either in math or in language) is a good thing. It&#8217;s also an investment, though. There are costs and benefits. I&#8217;m open to arguments that the benefits outweigh the costs but I don&#8217;t see it in this thread.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Topping		</title>
		<link>/2012/computers-are-not-a-natural-medium-for-doing-mathematics/#comment-580714</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Topping]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15672#comment-580714</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[By all means, let&#039;s teach kids programming. Progamming is a useful skill in the modern world but learning it also teaches them more fundamental skills such as divide-and-conquer, logic, abstraction, binding, etc. 

However, programming and functional expressions are not really mathematics. Most programming languages (and the ones mentioned in this thread) are algorithmic and imperative whereas standard math notation is declarative. For example, = in most programming languages is an assignment operation. This is not the same as = in mathematical notation which declares both sides as having a certain relationship, usually numerical equality but not always.

Programming languages and math notation are very different kinds of languages because they describe quite different things.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By all means, let&#8217;s teach kids programming. Progamming is a useful skill in the modern world but learning it also teaches them more fundamental skills such as divide-and-conquer, logic, abstraction, binding, etc. </p>
<p>However, programming and functional expressions are not really mathematics. Most programming languages (and the ones mentioned in this thread) are algorithmic and imperative whereas standard math notation is declarative. For example, = in most programming languages is an assignment operation. This is not the same as = in mathematical notation which declares both sides as having a certain relationship, usually numerical equality but not always.</p>
<p>Programming languages and math notation are very different kinds of languages because they describe quite different things.</p>
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