<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>
	Comments on: [LOA] The Real World Multiplier	</title>
	<atom:link href="/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/</link>
	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 00:58:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>
	hourly	</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>
	1	</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>
		By: Intro to Embedded Programming &#8212; Update &#171; Shifting Phases		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-574793</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Intro to Embedded Programming &#8212; Update &#171; Shifting Phases]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 00:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-574793</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Embedded Systems: The Bottom of the Ladder of Abstraction [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Embedded Systems: The Bottom of the Ladder of Abstraction [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-545918</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2012 12:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-545918</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Brian Lawler&lt;/strong&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;However, when you return to placing sample tasks into your grid, it seems you’ve removed the student’s experiencing of the task from the decision making again&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m admitting several times throughout the post that the horizontal axis is really, really subjective, but not so subjective it isn&#039;t worth talking about broadly. I place Shaughnessy&#039;s partitioned square task in the &quot;abstract context&quot; category, for example, even though for most people here it&#039;s fairly concrete. It&#039;s a useful frame for me but I try to keep its limits in mind.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Brian Lawler</strong>:</p>
<blockquote><p>However, when you return to placing sample tasks into your grid, it seems you’ve removed the student’s experiencing of the task from the decision making again</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m admitting several times throughout the post that the horizontal axis is really, really subjective, but not so subjective it isn&#8217;t worth talking about broadly. I place Shaughnessy&#8217;s partitioned square task in the &#8220;abstract context&#8221; category, for example, even though for most people here it&#8217;s fairly concrete. It&#8217;s a useful frame for me but I try to keep its limits in mind.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Christine Lenghaus		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-545604</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine Lenghaus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2012 05:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-545604</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I teach students who are 12-15 at the moment. What I have learned over the past two years with this age group is what I have distilled into three words: 

Do, Draw, Dream (aka concrete, 2D, abstract). 

To be able to do abstract maths students need to experience it, before they will be able to represent it on paper and then as a process/formula. Of course they can go straight to abstract but I think we can safely say that most of our students won&#039;t &#039;get it&#039; this way. This means that if I really want to build a bridge for my students to get to me, I have to meet them where they are and bring them across - not yell from the other side &#039;you should be here!&#039;. We do lots of &#039;do&#039; activities before giving them any recipe for something (ie this is how you multiply fractions). Another example with rename 327 at least 4 different ways allows them to show me they know: 327 ones, 32 tens &#038; 7 ones, or 3 hundreds, 2 tens and 7 ones and then they must think and learn to rename eg 7 ones is 70 tenths because this is important when dividing or multiplying (not just carrying the number to the next column!) This is to build a robustness of their knowledge and understanding and allows them to be able to maths at a higher level later on with confidence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I teach students who are 12-15 at the moment. What I have learned over the past two years with this age group is what I have distilled into three words: </p>
<p>Do, Draw, Dream (aka concrete, 2D, abstract). </p>
<p>To be able to do abstract maths students need to experience it, before they will be able to represent it on paper and then as a process/formula. Of course they can go straight to abstract but I think we can safely say that most of our students won&#8217;t &#8216;get it&#8217; this way. This means that if I really want to build a bridge for my students to get to me, I have to meet them where they are and bring them across &#8211; not yell from the other side &#8216;you should be here!&#8217;. We do lots of &#8216;do&#8217; activities before giving them any recipe for something (ie this is how you multiply fractions). Another example with rename 327 at least 4 different ways allows them to show me they know: 327 ones, 32 tens &amp; 7 ones, or 3 hundreds, 2 tens and 7 ones and then they must think and learn to rename eg 7 ones is 70 tenths because this is important when dividing or multiplying (not just carrying the number to the next column!) This is to build a robustness of their knowledge and understanding and allows them to be able to maths at a higher level later on with confidence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Bryan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-545490</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bryan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2012 02:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-545490</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting post, Dan. I&#039;m becoming more and more convinced that &quot;real-worldliness&quot; means very little (if not nothing) to students. Recently, in one of my classes I polled the students and 23/25 said that they would be happy doing our mathematical puzzles (similar to &quot;Problems of the Week&quot; from IMP) and nothing else. Ironically, these are the most challenging tasks we do and are close to zero on the &quot;real-worldliness&quot; scale.

This realization opens up a more interesting discussion, I think....one that you have started here on your blog. If it isn&#039;t real-world context, what is it about a task that engages students in the type of rich mathematics/thinking that we know to be the true benefit of math education? My action research this year has led me to hypothesize that students enjoy tasks in which imposition from the teacher (in terms of expected content outcomes) is most minimal. They enjoy exploring, looking for patterns, making and testing conjectures, and pursuing individualized paths from an open/rich task. I continue to think that the less I dictate the path of their work, the more they enjoy it. The less I hold them accountable to some concept/idea, the more they feel a sense of agency and capability as a mathematician. The curriculum must be the product of THEIR work, not some plan of MINE. For me, this doesn&#039;t mean we necessarily need to abandon a general outline of suggested standards but it does mean that we need to abandon this sense of accountability and &quot;mastery&quot; that (to me) are all false indicators of success and security. 

I appreciate that you have created an ongoing dialogue for all of us about designing interesting tasks for students. You empower teachers to free themselves from crappy textbook problems (read: exercises) and create an opportunity for their students to become participants in doing mathematics again.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, Dan. I&#8217;m becoming more and more convinced that &#8220;real-worldliness&#8221; means very little (if not nothing) to students. Recently, in one of my classes I polled the students and 23/25 said that they would be happy doing our mathematical puzzles (similar to &#8220;Problems of the Week&#8221; from IMP) and nothing else. Ironically, these are the most challenging tasks we do and are close to zero on the &#8220;real-worldliness&#8221; scale.</p>
<p>This realization opens up a more interesting discussion, I think&#8230;.one that you have started here on your blog. If it isn&#8217;t real-world context, what is it about a task that engages students in the type of rich mathematics/thinking that we know to be the true benefit of math education? My action research this year has led me to hypothesize that students enjoy tasks in which imposition from the teacher (in terms of expected content outcomes) is most minimal. They enjoy exploring, looking for patterns, making and testing conjectures, and pursuing individualized paths from an open/rich task. I continue to think that the less I dictate the path of their work, the more they enjoy it. The less I hold them accountable to some concept/idea, the more they feel a sense of agency and capability as a mathematician. The curriculum must be the product of THEIR work, not some plan of MINE. For me, this doesn&#8217;t mean we necessarily need to abandon a general outline of suggested standards but it does mean that we need to abandon this sense of accountability and &#8220;mastery&#8221; that (to me) are all false indicators of success and security. </p>
<p>I appreciate that you have created an ongoing dialogue for all of us about designing interesting tasks for students. You empower teachers to free themselves from crappy textbook problems (read: exercises) and create an opportunity for their students to become participants in doing mathematics again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Thomas		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-545200</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 19:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-545200</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This idea is very similar to Dowling&#039;s domains of practice. Have you ever read this Dan?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This idea is very similar to Dowling&#8217;s domains of practice. Have you ever read this Dan?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Belinda Thompson		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-544590</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Belinda Thompson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 03:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-544590</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think this is related to Blaw&#039;s comment:  Each task has a certain(?) amount of potential.  But we should alos somehow consider the interaction of the teacher and student with the task.  There are teachers who can make a silk purse out of a sow&#039;s ear by taking a not-so-great task and making it great. I&#039;m convinced there are teachers who do this every day with the curricular materials they have access to.  Dan is obviously an example of this.  He notices the structure and intent of tasks in the upper right quadrant and rewrites them to be somewhere more interesting  Then there are those teachers who do the reverse by taking a task with lots of potential and moving it to a different quadrant.  The 1999 TIMSS video study found that US teachers started with basically the same proportion of tasks with good potential as high-achieving countries, yet US teachers were not able to maintain the potential.  Have you thought about what happens when the task goes live?  Does it stay in the initial quadrant or does it get shifted?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is related to Blaw&#8217;s comment:  Each task has a certain(?) amount of potential.  But we should alos somehow consider the interaction of the teacher and student with the task.  There are teachers who can make a silk purse out of a sow&#8217;s ear by taking a not-so-great task and making it great. I&#8217;m convinced there are teachers who do this every day with the curricular materials they have access to.  Dan is obviously an example of this.  He notices the structure and intent of tasks in the upper right quadrant and rewrites them to be somewhere more interesting  Then there are those teachers who do the reverse by taking a task with lots of potential and moving it to a different quadrant.  The 1999 TIMSS video study found that US teachers started with basically the same proportion of tasks with good potential as high-achieving countries, yet US teachers were not able to maintain the potential.  Have you thought about what happens when the task goes live?  Does it stay in the initial quadrant or does it get shifted?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: blaw0013		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-544581</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blaw0013]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 03:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-544581</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Very interesting post--where you&#039;ve gone with this idea of what is concrete / abstract. My thoughts after first read: it seems as though you may not define this quality of concrete or abstractness as belonging to the task itself, rather it is what the student makes of the task. I took this from the section around the hay bales...  But maybe it speaks to the closeness the student feels to the task, what Turkle and Papert wrote about in &quot;Epistemological Pluralism.&quot;  However, when you return to placing sample tasks into your grid, it seems you&#039;ve removed the student&#039;s experiencing of the task from the decision making again... Is that allowable? Maybe unavoidable for writing curriculum. But if unavoidable, is there value to determining the LOA of tasks? 

I think so... In comparison to these Learning Trajectories I hear Jere Confrey insert into the CCSS conversations.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post&#8211;where you&#8217;ve gone with this idea of what is concrete / abstract. My thoughts after first read: it seems as though you may not define this quality of concrete or abstractness as belonging to the task itself, rather it is what the student makes of the task. I took this from the section around the hay bales&#8230;  But maybe it speaks to the closeness the student feels to the task, what Turkle and Papert wrote about in &#8220;Epistemological Pluralism.&#8221;  However, when you return to placing sample tasks into your grid, it seems you&#8217;ve removed the student&#8217;s experiencing of the task from the decision making again&#8230; Is that allowable? Maybe unavoidable for writing curriculum. But if unavoidable, is there value to determining the LOA of tasks? </p>
<p>I think so&#8230; In comparison to these Learning Trajectories I hear Jere Confrey insert into the CCSS conversations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: This is what I am talking about &#124; exponential growth		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-544520</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[This is what I am talking about &#124; exponential growth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-544520</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] a couple of hours after I posted this, Dan Meyer posted this. I would like to think that it was directly to me&#8230;yeah, right&#8230;.wishful thinking. I just [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] a couple of hours after I posted this, Dan Meyer posted this. I would like to think that it was directly to me&#8230;yeah, right&#8230;.wishful thinking. I just [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Philip Seris		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-544514</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Seris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-544514</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am glad that you provide a framework for making these abstractions into something that they can guess at and contribute to, because as I see it, students do not just want to feel dumb, deep down, they (like us) want to have something to contribute to a conversation. Starting that conversation with something that they do not need to know &quot;the math&quot; behind gives them something that they can talk about. I am constantly working on my own classes, knowing that I can do this really well with many tasks in some of my classes, but very poorly in other tasks in other classes. It seems that the higher the level of math, the more the abstraction gets away from something I feel I can make &quot;concreteable&quot;, for lack of a better term, and I am in constant reflection as to whether it is me, the math or the curriculum that need the overhaul. I am glad that you do what you do and empower me and so many others to see a vision and work toward a collective uneasiness in the status quo to the end that something better is created that will ultimately benefit the kids.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad that you provide a framework for making these abstractions into something that they can guess at and contribute to, because as I see it, students do not just want to feel dumb, deep down, they (like us) want to have something to contribute to a conversation. Starting that conversation with something that they do not need to know &#8220;the math&#8221; behind gives them something that they can talk about. I am constantly working on my own classes, knowing that I can do this really well with many tasks in some of my classes, but very poorly in other tasks in other classes. It seems that the higher the level of math, the more the abstraction gets away from something I feel I can make &#8220;concreteable&#8221;, for lack of a better term, and I am in constant reflection as to whether it is me, the math or the curriculum that need the overhaul. I am glad that you do what you do and empower me and so many others to see a vision and work toward a collective uneasiness in the status quo to the end that something better is created that will ultimately benefit the kids.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Geoff		</title>
		<link>/2012/loa-the-real-world-multiplier/#comment-544501</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15420#comment-544501</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is great stuff. I definitely had the ladder of abstraction in the back of my mind as I was thinking about &quot;real worldliness&quot; and took to twitter.  This is a fantastic re-framing of the question. One that I&#039;ll be sure to share as we continue to explore this &quot;authenticity&quot; question, which, as you indicate, may very well be a bit of a red herring.

What I like about this framework is this: I&#039;m fearful of saying &quot;it&#039;s ok if your tasks aren&#039;t concrete&quot; because that tends to let teachers off the hook. I say &quot;hey! let&#039;s use math creatively in fun and interesting ways of exploring shapes!&quot; and colleagues hear &quot;it&#039;s ok if I keep having kids solve 25 equations&quot;. This better parses the difference between alleged authenticity in a task versus authenticity in the student behavior.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great stuff. I definitely had the ladder of abstraction in the back of my mind as I was thinking about &#8220;real worldliness&#8221; and took to twitter.  This is a fantastic re-framing of the question. One that I&#8217;ll be sure to share as we continue to explore this &#8220;authenticity&#8221; question, which, as you indicate, may very well be a bit of a red herring.</p>
<p>What I like about this framework is this: I&#8217;m fearful of saying &#8220;it&#8217;s ok if your tasks aren&#8217;t concrete&#8221; because that tends to let teachers off the hook. I say &#8220;hey! let&#8217;s use math creatively in fun and interesting ways of exploring shapes!&#8221; and colleagues hear &#8220;it&#8217;s ok if I keep having kids solve 25 equations&#8221;. This better parses the difference between alleged authenticity in a task versus authenticity in the student behavior.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
