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	Comments on: What We Can Learn About Learning From Khan Academy&#8217;s Source Code	</title>
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	<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/</link>
	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:44:09 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		By: Lunch Dates: Dan Meyer &#124; wwndtd		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-991081</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lunch Dates: Dan Meyer &#124; wwndtd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-991081</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] seem to have a beef with Khan Academy-style stuff (and I happen to agree). But what in particular bugs you about it more than textbooks [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] seem to have a beef with Khan Academy-style stuff (and I happen to agree). But what in particular bugs you about it more than textbooks [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What We Can Learn About Learning From Khan Academyâ€™s Source Code, Ctd.		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-975154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What We Can Learn About Learning From Khan Academyâ€™s Source Code, Ctd.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2013 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-975154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Previously: What We Can Learn About Learning From Khan Academy’s Source Code. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Previously: What We Can Learn About Learning From Khan Academy’s Source Code. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: NLB â€“Post2Â Â Â  When To Practice?Â  &#124; EDCloud		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-923584</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NLB â€“Post2Â Â Â  When To Practice?Â  &#124; EDCloud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jun 2013 23:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-923584</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] take on Khan Academy.Â  But then the mention of Khan Academy and video instruction opens up a whole new debate.Â  Nope, no time for that, need to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] take on Khan Academy.Â  But then the mention of Khan Academy and video instruction opens up a whole new debate.Â  Nope, no time for that, need to [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why Learning Analytics Aren&#8217;t Like Netflix Recommendations		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-760636</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why Learning Analytics Aren&#8217;t Like Netflix Recommendations]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Mar 2013 21:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-760636</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] BTW. Probably related: What We Can Learn About Learning From Khan Academy’s Source Code. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] BTW. Probably related: What We Can Learn About Learning From Khan Academy’s Source Code. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-646213</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-646213</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This comment thread has run its course IMO.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment thread has run its course IMO.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Leigh Nataro		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-646062</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leigh Nataro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-646062</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Mary

I agree that Khan Academy has its uses.  If I was a homeschooling parent and wasn&#039;t so great at math, I would probably be using Khan Academy as a resource.  Either to re-view the material myself before teaching my child or to have my child watch it directly.

The main criticism I have is that there are people out there (Bill Gates, Dept. of Education gurus) that think Khan Academy can be used as the only resource for learning.  They don&#039;t see the benefits of having students work together.  They don&#039;t understand that math is more than an algorithm or set of rules.  And mainly, they don&#039;t understand the value of a live teacher interacting with a students.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mary</p>
<p>I agree that Khan Academy has its uses.  If I was a homeschooling parent and wasn&#8217;t so great at math, I would probably be using Khan Academy as a resource.  Either to re-view the material myself before teaching my child or to have my child watch it directly.</p>
<p>The main criticism I have is that there are people out there (Bill Gates, Dept. of Education gurus) that think Khan Academy can be used as the only resource for learning.  They don&#8217;t see the benefits of having students work together.  They don&#8217;t understand that math is more than an algorithm or set of rules.  And mainly, they don&#8217;t understand the value of a live teacher interacting with a students.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Technology Gives and Takes Away &#171; Teaching as a dynamic activity		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-645085</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Technology Gives and Takes Away &#171; Teaching as a dynamic activity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 02:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-645085</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] From Dan Meyer: [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] From Dan Meyer: [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mary		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-644801</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-644801</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Rolin, @David
Sal Khan doesn&#039;t look at education as a &quot;content delivery system&quot;.  I did not understand why students must follow an age based cohort system before Sal Khan was born.  It goes back to the years I spent sitting in classrooms learning no math because I already knew it, understood it, and had no idea why it was important to learn.  Read the chapter in OWS on Mastery Learning, then the chapter on The Economics of Schooling - &quot;The idea is to integrate the technology into how we teach and learn; without meaningful and imaginative integration, technology in the classroom could turn out to be just one more very expensive gimmick.&quot;  These expensive gimmick efforts are exactly what Dr. Cuban observes and writes books about.  Just as a computer can become an expensive letter opener for a busy executive; it can also become an expensive drill instructor for a struggling student.  The goal of integrating Khan Academy into the classroom is not to replace the math teacher but to free up both teacher AND student time to do the real activities that students need in the classroom.  These are hands on projects where students can actually use and understand the math skills they have acquired.  (See the OWS chapter &quot;Fun and Games&quot;).  

It&#039;s interesting that both Seymour Papert and Sal Khan share experience at MIT in common (See the OWS chapter &quot;My Background as a Student&quot;).  A discussion between them would prove very interesting.  Hopefully Papert will recover enough from his accident at some point in the future to have this discussion.  I believe they share a vision of what education ought to be.  There is an opportunity to investigate this by comparing Papert&#039;s Logo programming language and the new Khan Academy Computer Science tutorials.

I just finished a month of teaching 5th graders to program using the new Khan Academy Computer Science tutorials, function library, and spin off programs.  The classroom teacher and I did this to supplement and reinforce the geometry unit the students were learning.  In the midst of this activity we realized that many students never understood ordered pairs until they had to create a program to draw triangles.  Computer programming is not part of the elementary school curriculum so we were free to try &quot;flipping the classroom&quot;.  That is, let the students go at their own pace, mastering as much programming skill as they were able.  What we discovered is the students don&#039;t want to stop learning to program.  We have given them access to a tool and they have taken responsibility for their own learning. (See the OWS chapter &quot;How Education Happens&quot;).

Remember Khan Academy is not about watching how-to videos.  It&#039;s about wanting to know something and finding a tool that helps you learn.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rolin, @David<br />
Sal Khan doesn&#8217;t look at education as a &#8220;content delivery system&#8221;.  I did not understand why students must follow an age based cohort system before Sal Khan was born.  It goes back to the years I spent sitting in classrooms learning no math because I already knew it, understood it, and had no idea why it was important to learn.  Read the chapter in OWS on Mastery Learning, then the chapter on The Economics of Schooling &#8211; &#8220;The idea is to integrate the technology into how we teach and learn; without meaningful and imaginative integration, technology in the classroom could turn out to be just one more very expensive gimmick.&#8221;  These expensive gimmick efforts are exactly what Dr. Cuban observes and writes books about.  Just as a computer can become an expensive letter opener for a busy executive; it can also become an expensive drill instructor for a struggling student.  The goal of integrating Khan Academy into the classroom is not to replace the math teacher but to free up both teacher AND student time to do the real activities that students need in the classroom.  These are hands on projects where students can actually use and understand the math skills they have acquired.  (See the OWS chapter &#8220;Fun and Games&#8221;).  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting that both Seymour Papert and Sal Khan share experience at MIT in common (See the OWS chapter &#8220;My Background as a Student&#8221;).  A discussion between them would prove very interesting.  Hopefully Papert will recover enough from his accident at some point in the future to have this discussion.  I believe they share a vision of what education ought to be.  There is an opportunity to investigate this by comparing Papert&#8217;s Logo programming language and the new Khan Academy Computer Science tutorials.</p>
<p>I just finished a month of teaching 5th graders to program using the new Khan Academy Computer Science tutorials, function library, and spin off programs.  The classroom teacher and I did this to supplement and reinforce the geometry unit the students were learning.  In the midst of this activity we realized that many students never understood ordered pairs until they had to create a program to draw triangles.  Computer programming is not part of the elementary school curriculum so we were free to try &#8220;flipping the classroom&#8221;.  That is, let the students go at their own pace, mastering as much programming skill as they were able.  What we discovered is the students don&#8217;t want to stop learning to program.  We have given them access to a tool and they have taken responsibility for their own learning. (See the OWS chapter &#8220;How Education Happens&#8221;).</p>
<p>Remember Khan Academy is not about watching how-to videos.  It&#8217;s about wanting to know something and finding a tool that helps you learn.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin H		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-631136</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2012 13:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-631136</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[KA currently has &lt;a href=&quot;http://search.jobvite.com/web/modules/layout/jobDetail.htm?j=o0gZWfwV&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a 3-6 month contract&lt;/a&gt; for a job opening for someone to help them come up with better questions.  Looks like it doesn&#039;t involve any programming--just writing questions.

Just thought someone here might be a really good candidate to help them get better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KA currently has <a href="http://search.jobvite.com/web/modules/layout/jobDetail.htm?j=o0gZWfwV" rel="nofollow">a 3-6 month contract</a> for a job opening for someone to help them come up with better questions.  Looks like it doesn&#8217;t involve any programming&#8211;just writing questions.</p>
<p>Just thought someone here might be a really good candidate to help them get better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Rolin Moe		</title>
		<link>/2012/what-we-can-learn-about-learning-from-khan-academys-source-code/#comment-626134</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rolin Moe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2012 00:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=15889#comment-626134</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@David - Papert was injured in a traffic accident a few years back, and has been rehabilitating since...I know of no correspondence on any edu matters from him.

@Mary, I don&#039;t disagree with Khan Academy as a good resource. I have a number of issues with it as a learning system as well as Khan&#039;s educational philosophy. I&#039;m going to try to pinpoint them here as well as reply to your Papert quotation.

1) I have not read all of OWS, but I have viewed Khan&#039;s TED talk, a Forbes interview, and a recent Gates Foundation keynote where he discusses his views on the education system, so I feel like I understand his perspective, I just disagree. He looks at edu as a content delivery system...kids come in, get content, show mastery, matriculate. He doesn&#039;t see why that has to follow the Prussian model of formal ed where students are placed in age-based cohorts. For him, the ease of content delivery in numerous ways (he would call it Personalized Learning) makes our current model ineffective at best.

2) Papert believed in constructivism, a learning theory focused on the student as a maker of knowledge (constructivists often talk of knowledge as something everyone creates) through hands-on practical exercise and authentic experimentation that affect the student and his/her environment (crude summary). For Papert, computers were transcendent machines that allowed numerous opportunities for hands-on practical application that changes environment through programming, design and application. The classroom becomes ineffective here because students can create and program with ease, not be lectured to and run through meaningless exercises of drill and kill.

So while Khan and Papert see the computer as transformational, how they get there could not be more different. Khan Academy replaces the teacher for a video, but it&#039;s still lecture. The flipped classroom says you do your homework at school, but if the homework looks like the quiz problems KA generates in their tutorials, it&#039;s just behaviorist assessment of an inauthentic situation. Papert wanted the computer as a machine of creation, not as a replacement of an outdated learning model.  

Khan Academy is not new...it&#039;s technology used to do something we&#039;ve been doing for a long time...lecturing at kids and having them do drills to show a competency. Papert wanted knowledge to transform students...not just competent enough to pass an arbitrary exam, but the ability to use the knowledge in a life context as needed. 

I watch how-to videos a lot...how to fold a fitted sheet, how to tie a bow tie, how to change my car oil. It provides me a startin point for a skill I need in that moment (but still need practice for).  That being said, tying a bow tie won&#039;t help me launch rockets with my son, and folding a fitted sheet won&#039;t help me communicate a thought effectively. The skills we teach youngsters and want our students to learn are those applicable, transferrable cognitive and creative skills.  In my life, I never solve for x on paper...I am presented with a problem and have to utilize algebra in my environment to solve. For some kids, switching from the lecture and worksheet to real life is easy peasy, but most struggle, and in effect don&#039;t do well with math. Khan Academy doesn&#039;t change that paradigm, it just cuts out a weaker lecturer for a stronger one, never questioning that this didactic method might not be the best one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David &#8211; Papert was injured in a traffic accident a few years back, and has been rehabilitating since&#8230;I know of no correspondence on any edu matters from him.</p>
<p>@Mary, I don&#8217;t disagree with Khan Academy as a good resource. I have a number of issues with it as a learning system as well as Khan&#8217;s educational philosophy. I&#8217;m going to try to pinpoint them here as well as reply to your Papert quotation.</p>
<p>1) I have not read all of OWS, but I have viewed Khan&#8217;s TED talk, a Forbes interview, and a recent Gates Foundation keynote where he discusses his views on the education system, so I feel like I understand his perspective, I just disagree. He looks at edu as a content delivery system&#8230;kids come in, get content, show mastery, matriculate. He doesn&#8217;t see why that has to follow the Prussian model of formal ed where students are placed in age-based cohorts. For him, the ease of content delivery in numerous ways (he would call it Personalized Learning) makes our current model ineffective at best.</p>
<p>2) Papert believed in constructivism, a learning theory focused on the student as a maker of knowledge (constructivists often talk of knowledge as something everyone creates) through hands-on practical exercise and authentic experimentation that affect the student and his/her environment (crude summary). For Papert, computers were transcendent machines that allowed numerous opportunities for hands-on practical application that changes environment through programming, design and application. The classroom becomes ineffective here because students can create and program with ease, not be lectured to and run through meaningless exercises of drill and kill.</p>
<p>So while Khan and Papert see the computer as transformational, how they get there could not be more different. Khan Academy replaces the teacher for a video, but it&#8217;s still lecture. The flipped classroom says you do your homework at school, but if the homework looks like the quiz problems KA generates in their tutorials, it&#8217;s just behaviorist assessment of an inauthentic situation. Papert wanted the computer as a machine of creation, not as a replacement of an outdated learning model.  </p>
<p>Khan Academy is not new&#8230;it&#8217;s technology used to do something we&#8217;ve been doing for a long time&#8230;lecturing at kids and having them do drills to show a competency. Papert wanted knowledge to transform students&#8230;not just competent enough to pass an arbitrary exam, but the ability to use the knowledge in a life context as needed. </p>
<p>I watch how-to videos a lot&#8230;how to fold a fitted sheet, how to tie a bow tie, how to change my car oil. It provides me a startin point for a skill I need in that moment (but still need practice for).  That being said, tying a bow tie won&#8217;t help me launch rockets with my son, and folding a fitted sheet won&#8217;t help me communicate a thought effectively. The skills we teach youngsters and want our students to learn are those applicable, transferrable cognitive and creative skills.  In my life, I never solve for x on paper&#8230;I am presented with a problem and have to utilize algebra in my environment to solve. For some kids, switching from the lecture and worksheet to real life is easy peasy, but most struggle, and in effect don&#8217;t do well with math. Khan Academy doesn&#8217;t change that paradigm, it just cuts out a weaker lecturer for a stronger one, never questioning that this didactic method might not be the best one.</p>
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