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	Comments on: Cleaning The Windows Of The Luxor Hotel	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		<title>
		By: Penny Pyramid: Modeling Real World Math &#124; BULTS BLOG		</title>
		<link>/2013/cleaning-the-windows-of-the-luxor-hotel/#comment-880744</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Penny Pyramid: Modeling Real World Math &#124; BULTS BLOG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 05:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16950#comment-880744</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Cleaning The Windows Of The Luxor Hotel (mrmeyer.com) [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Cleaning The Windows Of The Luxor Hotel (mrmeyer.com) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Teaching With Three-Act Tasks: Act One		</title>
		<link>/2013/cleaning-the-windows-of-the-luxor-hotel/#comment-848615</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Teaching With Three-Act Tasks: Act One]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 May 2013 18:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[[...] a photo or a video and then pursue student questions in any direction they take you. Sean Geraghty just asked me to script one of these tasks out with every question I&#039;d ask. I&#039;ll seize that opportunity to post [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] a photo or a video and then pursue student questions in any direction they take you. Sean Geraghty just asked me to script one of these tasks out with every question I&#039;d ask. I&#039;ll seize that opportunity to post [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sean		</title>
		<link>/2013/cleaning-the-windows-of-the-luxor-hotel/#comment-839248</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 May 2013 20:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16950#comment-839248</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Dan&lt;/strong&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;When we’re modeling in our own lives, we have to make decisions about what information is necessary and how we’ll get it. We start with no data at all, just a purpose that’ll eventually require data. (That’s only for modeling, though.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I liked this a lot and went googling around to see what other folks had to say. Found an old Jo Boaler paper with this gem: &quot;School mathematics remains school mathematics for students when they are not encouraged to analyze mathematical situations and understand which aspects are central.&quot; 

&lt;strong&gt;Dan&lt;/strong&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Two: how can we best enact mathematical modeling in the classroom with teachers of varying quality?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Script one of your 3-Act pieces out word for word: every question you&#039;d ask, every misconception you&#039;d anticipate, etc.. That&#039;d be top-tier PD for lots of us.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Dan</strong>:</p>
<blockquote><p>When we’re modeling in our own lives, we have to make decisions about what information is necessary and how we’ll get it. We start with no data at all, just a purpose that’ll eventually require data. (That’s only for modeling, though.)</p></blockquote>
<p>I liked this a lot and went googling around to see what other folks had to say. Found an old Jo Boaler paper with this gem: &#8220;School mathematics remains school mathematics for students when they are not encouraged to analyze mathematical situations and understand which aspects are central.&#8221; </p>
<p><strong>Dan</strong>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Two: how can we best enact mathematical modeling in the classroom with teachers of varying quality?</p></blockquote>
<p>Script one of your 3-Act pieces out word for word: every question you&#8217;d ask, every misconception you&#8217;d anticipate, etc.. That&#8217;d be top-tier PD for lots of us.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2013/cleaning-the-windows-of-the-luxor-hotel/#comment-839169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 May 2013 18:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16950#comment-839169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Sean&lt;/strong&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;One improvement to a lot of textbook modeling problems is to remove as much data as possible. But how much data removal is too much data removal?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When we&#039;re modeling in our own lives, we have to make decisions about what information is necessary and how we&#039;ll get it. We start with no data at all, just a purpose that&#039;ll eventually &lt;em&gt;require&lt;/em&gt; data.

So on its own, if the question is &quot;How much data removal is too much data removal &lt;em&gt;in a modeling task&lt;/em&gt;?&quot; my answer is &quot;You can&#039;t remove enough data.&quot; (That&#039;s only for modeling, though.)

Kate introduces another variable – teacher quality. Optimizing for &lt;em&gt;both&lt;/em&gt; of those variables will lead us to different conclusions w/r/t scaffolding. I think we should consider the two questions separately, though.

One: what does mathematical modeling look like?

Two: how can we best enact mathematical modeling in the classroom with teachers of varying quality?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Sean</strong>:</p>
<blockquote><p>One improvement to a lot of textbook modeling problems is to remove as much data as possible. But how much data removal is too much data removal?</p></blockquote>
<p>When we&#8217;re modeling in our own lives, we have to make decisions about what information is necessary and how we&#8217;ll get it. We start with no data at all, just a purpose that&#8217;ll eventually <em>require</em> data.</p>
<p>So on its own, if the question is &#8220;How much data removal is too much data removal <em>in a modeling task</em>?&#8221; my answer is &#8220;You can&#8217;t remove enough data.&#8221; (That&#8217;s only for modeling, though.)</p>
<p>Kate introduces another variable – teacher quality. Optimizing for <em>both</em> of those variables will lead us to different conclusions w/r/t scaffolding. I think we should consider the two questions separately, though.</p>
<p>One: what does mathematical modeling look like?</p>
<p>Two: how can we best enact mathematical modeling in the classroom with teachers of varying quality?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Amy Zimmer		</title>
		<link>/2013/cleaning-the-windows-of-the-luxor-hotel/#comment-838008</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy Zimmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 May 2013 00:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16950#comment-838008</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great job Nathan! Love it!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great job Nathan! Love it!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sean		</title>
		<link>/2013/cleaning-the-windows-of-the-luxor-hotel/#comment-837809</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 22:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16950#comment-837809</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Those exceptions aren&#039;t reasons to not ask the question. Those exceptions make the question more messy, more meaningful, more like actual modeling, and less like textbook modeling where air resistance is neglected, the rates are constant, the men are strong, and the women lithesome.&quot;

One improvement to a lot of textbook modeling problems is to remove as much data as possible.  But how much data removal is too much data removal? You&#039;ve done such useful, provocative work exploring this, and I really liked Kate Nowak&#039;s recent description of the Mathalicious process:

&quot;...scaffold too little, and the lesson becomes too hard for too many teachers. Scaffold too much, and the lesson does too much of the cognitive work for the student, robbing them of the chance at the learning that comes from insight.&quot;

Another improvement might be to invite criticism of the assumptions the authors make (e.g. &quot;What are the risks of holding the rate constant? Why might they have chosen to neglect air resistance? What other variables might we add or discard?&quot;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Those exceptions aren&#8217;t reasons to not ask the question. Those exceptions make the question more messy, more meaningful, more like actual modeling, and less like textbook modeling where air resistance is neglected, the rates are constant, the men are strong, and the women lithesome.&#8221;</p>
<p>One improvement to a lot of textbook modeling problems is to remove as much data as possible.  But how much data removal is too much data removal? You&#8217;ve done such useful, provocative work exploring this, and I really liked Kate Nowak&#8217;s recent description of the Mathalicious process:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;scaffold too little, and the lesson becomes too hard for too many teachers. Scaffold too much, and the lesson does too much of the cognitive work for the student, robbing them of the chance at the learning that comes from insight.&#8221;</p>
<p>Another improvement might be to invite criticism of the assumptions the authors make (e.g. &#8220;What are the risks of holding the rate constant? Why might they have chosen to neglect air resistance? What other variables might we add or discard?&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Curmudgeon		</title>
		<link>/2013/cleaning-the-windows-of-the-luxor-hotel/#comment-835593</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curmudgeon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 22:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16950#comment-835593</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[http://rjgreenphoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/las-vegas-window-washer.jpg?w=590]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://rjgreenphoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/las-vegas-window-washer.jpg?w=590" rel="nofollow ugc">http://rjgreenphoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/las-vegas-window-washer.jpg?w=590</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: hillby		</title>
		<link>/2013/cleaning-the-windows-of-the-luxor-hotel/#comment-834677</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hillby]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 14:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16950#comment-834677</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[No doubt we need more messy modeling.  We also need that conversation about what can we assume or ignore in order to make a simple mathematical model.  If we have that conversation in creating the model, then it&#039;ll be easier to add in those corrections later.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No doubt we need more messy modeling.  We also need that conversation about what can we assume or ignore in order to make a simple mathematical model.  If we have that conversation in creating the model, then it&#8217;ll be easier to add in those corrections later.</p>
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