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	Comments on: Negative Times A Negative	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		<title>
		By: Melissa Luzano		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-1165833</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melissa Luzano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-1165833</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I tried something new this year, so it obviously needs work, but I thought it&#039;d be worth sharing (even though it&#039;s several months late). I think it addresses both the negatives times negative and the real world issues.

Before introducing integers, we watched the movie Upside Down (trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3veONCcRWbw). In it there&#039;s an elevator with integers. Floor zero is in the middle of the two planets. The positive floors lead to the top planet, and the negative floors go to the planet below.

We make an Integer Elevator, and the students use it to do integer operations. It&#039;s basically a vertical number line.

examples:
4-7 means you (starting at floor zero) go up 4 floors and then down 7 floors. You end on floor -3.
2(3) means you go up 3 floors twice.
2(-3) means you go down 3 floors twice.
(-2)(-3) means you go down 3 floors but twice in the opposite direction, which takes you to floor 6. 

*The elevator thing doesn&#039;t work for (-1/2)(-3.07), but I&#039;m pretty satisfied that it helps the students understand (-2)(-3) first.

Is it a real world application? Yes, but from a different world, so I think it leans more to the perplexing side.


Mr. Meyer, any chance you attended an AP Institute in San Diego?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried something new this year, so it obviously needs work, but I thought it&#8217;d be worth sharing (even though it&#8217;s several months late). I think it addresses both the negatives times negative and the real world issues.</p>
<p>Before introducing integers, we watched the movie Upside Down (trailer: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3veONCcRWbw" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3veONCcRWbw</a>). In it there&#8217;s an elevator with integers. Floor zero is in the middle of the two planets. The positive floors lead to the top planet, and the negative floors go to the planet below.</p>
<p>We make an Integer Elevator, and the students use it to do integer operations. It&#8217;s basically a vertical number line.</p>
<p>examples:<br />
4-7 means you (starting at floor zero) go up 4 floors and then down 7 floors. You end on floor -3.<br />
2(3) means you go up 3 floors twice.<br />
2(-3) means you go down 3 floors twice.<br />
(-2)(-3) means you go down 3 floors but twice in the opposite direction, which takes you to floor 6. </p>
<p>*The elevator thing doesn&#8217;t work for (-1/2)(-3.07), but I&#8217;m pretty satisfied that it helps the students understand (-2)(-3) first.</p>
<p>Is it a real world application? Yes, but from a different world, so I think it leans more to the perplexing side.</p>
<p>Mr. Meyer, any chance you attended an AP Institute in San Diego?</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Lawnmower Games &#124; Gleaming Number Rockets		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-999091</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Lawnmower Games &#124; Gleaming Number Rockets]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-999091</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] I drew Hat intoÂ Chris Adams&#8217;s great response to Dan Meyer&#8217;s call-for-tweets about A Negative Times a Negative. Hat&#8217;s gears audibly clicked into place when he played that movie in his [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I drew Hat intoÂ Chris Adams&#8217;s great response to Dan Meyer&#8217;s call-for-tweets about A Negative Times a Negative. Hat&#8217;s gears audibly clicked into place when he played that movie in his [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [Mailbag] Teaching Geometry Inductively V. Deductively		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-993065</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [Mailbag] Teaching Geometry Inductively V. Deductively]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Aug 2013 16:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-993065</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] talked over here about “organizing principles” for a math class. I’d say “make math real world” is as [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] talked over here about “organizing principles” for a math class. I’d say “make math real world” is as [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: What&#8217;s the Purpose? &#124; langer.kogut.math		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-983663</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What&#8217;s the Purpose? &#124; langer.kogut.math]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-983663</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] back, Dan Meyers posted about how a teacher&#8217;s stance about why we study math will strongly affect the classroom s/he [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] back, Dan Meyers posted about how a teacher&#8217;s stance about why we study math will strongly affect the classroom s/he [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: George Bigham		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-968033</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[George Bigham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 19:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-968033</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Students are diverse, some will be motivated by the practical others by the more esoteric and abstract.  As teachers we also have our leanings about which side we find more important and naturally want to teach in favor of that slant.  Personally, I&#039;ve always been more fascinated in the abstract and &#039;pure&#039; side of math, but when teaching I think its most important to gauge what type of class and what type of students you have and teach to them and their motives (and of course the requirements of the standards,sigh.)  

I think its important when students challenge the notion of (-1)*(-1)=1 we encourage this questioning and do not just shut them down.  To appeal to both types of students and motivations I think I would answer that (-1)*(-1) doesn&#039;t have to equal 1, but we defined it this way as a convention.  It is not an arbitrary convention, it was done for many practical reasons for modeling real world behaviors described above.  It was also done for abstract reasons such as preserving the distributive property also mentioned above.  Deciding that (-1)*(-1)= -1 is within the powers of a mathematician, however, he or she has to be aware of the consequences that follow... such as no distributive property and many real world modeling problems that won&#039;t make sense.  Perhaps it would be good to address the problems with (-1)*(-1) = -1 to shine light on the virtues of (-1)*(-1)=1.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Students are diverse, some will be motivated by the practical others by the more esoteric and abstract.  As teachers we also have our leanings about which side we find more important and naturally want to teach in favor of that slant.  Personally, I&#8217;ve always been more fascinated in the abstract and &#8216;pure&#8217; side of math, but when teaching I think its most important to gauge what type of class and what type of students you have and teach to them and their motives (and of course the requirements of the standards,sigh.)  </p>
<p>I think its important when students challenge the notion of (-1)*(-1)=1 we encourage this questioning and do not just shut them down.  To appeal to both types of students and motivations I think I would answer that (-1)*(-1) doesn&#8217;t have to equal 1, but we defined it this way as a convention.  It is not an arbitrary convention, it was done for many practical reasons for modeling real world behaviors described above.  It was also done for abstract reasons such as preserving the distributive property also mentioned above.  Deciding that (-1)*(-1)= -1 is within the powers of a mathematician, however, he or she has to be aware of the consequences that follow&#8230; such as no distributive property and many real world modeling problems that won&#8217;t make sense.  Perhaps it would be good to address the problems with (-1)*(-1) = -1 to shine light on the virtues of (-1)*(-1)=1.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Geometry of Multiplication &#124; Complex Analytic		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-966306</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Geometry of Multiplication &#124; Complex Analytic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jul 2013 03:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-966306</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] -21) and change the direction 180 degrees to 21. This might not be concrete enough yet for a model of negative times a negative, but I feel it can and should be the basis for [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] -21) and change the direction 180 degrees to 21. This might not be concrete enough yet for a model of negative times a negative, but I feel it can and should be the basis for [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: What Is A Number? &#124; Complex Analytic		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-962765</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What Is A Number? &#124; Complex Analytic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jul 2013 12:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-962765</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] I&#8217;d love to hear others answer this question. Once we can answer this question, we can answer Paul&#8217;s question of &#8220;What is a numeric illustration of the fact that a negative number multiplied by a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I&#8217;d love to hear others answer this question. Once we can answer this question, we can answer Paul&#8217;s question of &#8220;What is a numeric illustration of the fact that a negative number multiplied by a [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Radcliffe		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-953383</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Radcliffe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jun 2013 04:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-953383</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Place value could be a good way to introduce zero and negative exponents. If the hundreds place is 10^2 and the tens place is 10^1, what is the ones place? What is the hundredths place?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Place value could be a good way to introduce zero and negative exponents. If the hundreds place is 10^2 and the tens place is 10^1, what is the ones place? What is the hundredths place?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Bogdan		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-951694</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Bogdan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-951694</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I posed the original question to elicit real-word numeric examples.

The zero power is tough. Intuitively the answer is zero, but that makes problems. Here&#039;s an example, or train of thought.

Suppose we are talking about things that exist. Then an exponent of three has a lot of existence it represents a cube. Two is less (only length and width). One is less still. An exponent of zero still exists; it still has position. So, it is one for that reason. Making it zero would take it out of existence.

Higher exponents would mean more existence; we would add time, color, etc. Exponents that are less than zero imply less existence which is why they are fractions (and smaller the more negative they get.

Has anyone asked about zero factorial?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posed the original question to elicit real-word numeric examples.</p>
<p>The zero power is tough. Intuitively the answer is zero, but that makes problems. Here&#8217;s an example, or train of thought.</p>
<p>Suppose we are talking about things that exist. Then an exponent of three has a lot of existence it represents a cube. Two is less (only length and width). One is less still. An exponent of zero still exists; it still has position. So, it is one for that reason. Making it zero would take it out of existence.</p>
<p>Higher exponents would mean more existence; we would add time, color, etc. Exponents that are less than zero imply less existence which is why they are fractions (and smaller the more negative they get.</p>
<p>Has anyone asked about zero factorial?</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Key		</title>
		<link>/2013/negative-times-a-negative/#comment-951623</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Key]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17227#comment-951623</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Lee: I think we are really saying the same thing here.  The argument you use in comment #35 just makes the case for the definition of x^0, but it is nevertheless a definition.  In other words, you make a &quot;pattern argument,&quot; but who is to say the pattern can&#039;t work like this:

10^2 = 100
10^1 = 10
10^0 = 53

There is no *logical* reason for refusing to admit 53 in the &quot;pattern&quot; above.  The fact that you cite a particular numerical pattern and a particular graphical pattern just means that we *really, really want* to define x^0 as 1, but that doesn&#039;t cancel the fact that it&#039;s a definition, in a technical sense.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lee: I think we are really saying the same thing here.  The argument you use in comment #35 just makes the case for the definition of x^0, but it is nevertheless a definition.  In other words, you make a &#8220;pattern argument,&#8221; but who is to say the pattern can&#8217;t work like this:</p>
<p>10^2 = 100<br />
10^1 = 10<br />
10^0 = 53</p>
<p>There is no *logical* reason for refusing to admit 53 in the &#8220;pattern&#8221; above.  The fact that you cite a particular numerical pattern and a particular graphical pattern just means that we *really, really want* to define x^0 as 1, but that doesn&#8217;t cancel the fact that it&#8217;s a definition, in a technical sense.</p>
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