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	Comments on: Pennies, Pearson, And The Mistakes You Never See Coming	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 02:18:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Christian		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1027165</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 02:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1027165</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think added value is (and was) upon us with moments where students are NOT in the classroom. Getting some practice done between lessons, with lessons for explanation, group discussion, collab tasks, and the day before the next lesson a teacher glancing over an intelligent panel with scores (cos a teacher can&#039;t check 30 students&#039; 10 tasks, maybe even over multiple classes). Then, notice some often made mistakes, use these on a projector to show and ask what has gone wrong (use a pedagogically sound way of course) but also what has gone right but not all that efficient. Yes, that can be done. But it needs the teacher for the final analysis (computer ok for rough) at the moment, and student-teacher domain knowledge of misconceptions and good/bad strategies. A GPL-ed MySCript type interface should appear soon too. Still a long way to go, but don&#039;t let the &#039;big names&#039; be typical for the developments.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think added value is (and was) upon us with moments where students are NOT in the classroom. Getting some practice done between lessons, with lessons for explanation, group discussion, collab tasks, and the day before the next lesson a teacher glancing over an intelligent panel with scores (cos a teacher can&#8217;t check 30 students&#8217; 10 tasks, maybe even over multiple classes). Then, notice some often made mistakes, use these on a projector to show and ask what has gone wrong (use a pedagogically sound way of course) but also what has gone right but not all that efficient. Yes, that can be done. But it needs the teacher for the final analysis (computer ok for rough) at the moment, and student-teacher domain knowledge of misconceptions and good/bad strategies. A GPL-ed MySCript type interface should appear soon too. Still a long way to go, but don&#8217;t let the &#8216;big names&#8217; be typical for the developments.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Maria		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1026051</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1026051</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@heather

I agree with you that it must be really hard to teach in a 45 students group....

When I said that I enjoy discussing with my students their answers to exercises, I was talking of a class with a maximum of 25-27 students. In my country it&#039;s not possible to have 45 students in a classroom, by law. Of course that it&#039;s impossible to have a normal conversation with 45 people, students or not...

Maybe in your case I would use software for dividing the classroom in two parts: while the half of the students are doing exercises in their laps, you can discuss and debate with the other half what are the best ways to solve an exercise, etc.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@heather</p>
<p>I agree with you that it must be really hard to teach in a 45 students group&#8230;.</p>
<p>When I said that I enjoy discussing with my students their answers to exercises, I was talking of a class with a maximum of 25-27 students. In my country it&#8217;s not possible to have 45 students in a classroom, by law. Of course that it&#8217;s impossible to have a normal conversation with 45 people, students or not&#8230;</p>
<p>Maybe in your case I would use software for dividing the classroom in two parts: while the half of the students are doing exercises in their laps, you can discuss and debate with the other half what are the best ways to solve an exercise, etc.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave Major		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1026044</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Major]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1026044</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, all the teachers in videos like this one.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I always feel like an apologist for &#039;big data&#039; because I can see ways it could be so amazing without major advances technological, but there are so many things that terrify me about that video:

- Not one educational intervention shown is a reaction to anything but a colour code. Not one.
- Reading time with my child?!? Quick, schedule some television.
- 3/4 for counting to 100. Cool - BUT WHERE DID THEY GO WRONG? If a kid is struggling with something, I want every teacher of every subject to know and to be feeding back their experience. 

Data is cool, powerful and amazing, but it should part of a varifocal lens through which educators view their work.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well, all the teachers in videos like this one.</p></blockquote>
<p>I always feel like an apologist for &#8216;big data&#8217; because I can see ways it could be so amazing without major advances technological, but there are so many things that terrify me about that video:</p>
<p>&#8211; Not one educational intervention shown is a reaction to anything but a colour code. Not one.<br />
&#8211; Reading time with my child?!? Quick, schedule some television.<br />
&#8211; 3/4 for counting to 100. Cool &#8211; BUT WHERE DID THEY GO WRONG? If a kid is struggling with something, I want every teacher of every subject to know and to be feeding back their experience. </p>
<p>Data is cool, powerful and amazing, but it should part of a varifocal lens through which educators view their work.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Evan Weinberg		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1025987</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan Weinberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 15:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1025987</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Machine grading might be able to identify mistakes and grading answers in handwritten work soon, if it isn&#039;t able to do it now. I fear that machine grading has the potential to isolate students from each other in the same way watching videos does. I&#039;m more interested in getting technology to leverage the benefit of having a bunch of students in the same room that are working through the same general concepts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Machine grading might be able to identify mistakes and grading answers in handwritten work soon, if it isn&#8217;t able to do it now. I fear that machine grading has the potential to isolate students from each other in the same way watching videos does. I&#8217;m more interested in getting technology to leverage the benefit of having a bunch of students in the same room that are working through the same general concepts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1025970</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1025970</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Dave Major&lt;/strong&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I wonder how many teachers, when frozen in time mid-lesson and placed in the brain deli slicer would be thinking “Jimmy has 89% of this task correct and Sally has only highlighted four sentences on this page.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; the teachers in videos like &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHjbdpXohk0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Dave Major</strong>:</p>
<blockquote><p>I wonder how many teachers, when frozen in time mid-lesson and placed in the brain deli slicer would be thinking “Jimmy has 89% of this task correct and Sally has only highlighted four sentences on this page.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, <em>all</em> the teachers in videos like <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHjbdpXohk0" rel="nofollow">this one</a>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave Major		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1025928</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Major]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 12:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1025928</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cognitive load is generally (at least to my experience) explored with reference to students, but I bet there is some interesting stuff going on with the teacher. Dashboards of the traditional &#039;spawn of Satan &#038; Clippy the Excel assistant&#039; sort throw way too much extremely specific information straight to the surface for my liking (and brain). That information is almost always things that are easy for machines (read. programmers) to work out, and likely hard or time consuming yet dubiously useful for humans to do. I wonder how many teachers, when frozen in time mid-lesson and placed in the brain deli slicer would be thinking &quot;Jimmy has 89% of this task correct and Sally has only highlighted four sentences on this page.&quot;

My current thinking is that machine grading is not yet useful unless you are pushing some sort of industrial-level mass teaching in a situation where meaningful student-teacher interaction is either impractical, impossible, or undesirable. Being a music teacher by trade gives me a good viewpoint of thinking &quot;Would I let a computer judge this student performance? No, but it could record it for me to use later.&quot;

If as Dan suggests, &quot;only the teacher&#039;s job is possible now&quot;, perhaps we should look at making the machine more of an assistant: gathering the information a teacher does think about and presenting it in a way that makes their thought processes and decisions easier.

I don&#039;t want marks &#038; grades. I want my computer to saying &quot;Jimmy&#039;s previous work? sure - here you go buddy! Spot any problems we can tag and file with others? Oh hey, Sally has just asked for help - here is her screen and a timeline of what she has done. On the big screen? but of course.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cognitive load is generally (at least to my experience) explored with reference to students, but I bet there is some interesting stuff going on with the teacher. Dashboards of the traditional &#8216;spawn of Satan &amp; Clippy the Excel assistant&#8217; sort throw way too much extremely specific information straight to the surface for my liking (and brain). That information is almost always things that are easy for machines (read. programmers) to work out, and likely hard or time consuming yet dubiously useful for humans to do. I wonder how many teachers, when frozen in time mid-lesson and placed in the brain deli slicer would be thinking &#8220;Jimmy has 89% of this task correct and Sally has only highlighted four sentences on this page.&#8221;</p>
<p>My current thinking is that machine grading is not yet useful unless you are pushing some sort of industrial-level mass teaching in a situation where meaningful student-teacher interaction is either impractical, impossible, or undesirable. Being a music teacher by trade gives me a good viewpoint of thinking &#8220;Would I let a computer judge this student performance? No, but it could record it for me to use later.&#8221;</p>
<p>If as Dan suggests, &#8220;only the teacher&#8217;s job is possible now&#8221;, perhaps we should look at making the machine more of an assistant: gathering the information a teacher does think about and presenting it in a way that makes their thought processes and decisions easier.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want marks &amp; grades. I want my computer to saying &#8220;Jimmy&#8217;s previous work? sure &#8211; here you go buddy! Spot any problems we can tag and file with others? Oh hey, Sally has just asked for help &#8211; here is her screen and a timeline of what she has done. On the big screen? but of course.&#8221;</p>
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		By: Gnostradamus		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1025919</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gnostradamus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 11:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1025919</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;It is so difficult to work in a classroom teaching algebra with 45 students, where some still don’t understand basic multiplication, and some students are ready for more challenging work.&quot;

Well, maybe your district or school is either ignorant or apathetic to the fact that you CAN&#039;T teach 45 kids in one class, even if they&#039;re the best students in the world. Add to that skill levels that are too disparate, and you&#039;ve got a certain-to-fail model of education that is forced on too many public schools.

You know what they&#039;ll do when they put computers in your room, heather? They will cut even more teachers to buy the (and maintain) the equipment, and have more students.

Not that 45 kids in a lab work, either. I teach computer science also.

This, folks, is the tragic reality of American education. Our teachers and schools usually do the best we can. But until we fix all the surrounding problems with poverty, funding, etc, some students never get a fair chance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It is so difficult to work in a classroom teaching algebra with 45 students, where some still don’t understand basic multiplication, and some students are ready for more challenging work.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, maybe your district or school is either ignorant or apathetic to the fact that you CAN&#8217;T teach 45 kids in one class, even if they&#8217;re the best students in the world. Add to that skill levels that are too disparate, and you&#8217;ve got a certain-to-fail model of education that is forced on too many public schools.</p>
<p>You know what they&#8217;ll do when they put computers in your room, heather? They will cut even more teachers to buy the (and maintain) the equipment, and have more students.</p>
<p>Not that 45 kids in a lab work, either. I teach computer science also.</p>
<p>This, folks, is the tragic reality of American education. Our teachers and schools usually do the best we can. But until we fix all the surrounding problems with poverty, funding, etc, some students never get a fair chance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jeff Layman		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1025907</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Layman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 11:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1025907</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In a note unrelated to math instruction, you keep churning out great examples of ways to constructively disagree with others that a lot of blogosphere folks could really take to heart. I don&#039;t teach math, but there&#039;s a whole lot more I learn around these parts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a note unrelated to math instruction, you keep churning out great examples of ways to constructively disagree with others that a lot of blogosphere folks could really take to heart. I don&#8217;t teach math, but there&#8217;s a whole lot more I learn around these parts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: heather		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1025477</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[heather]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 15:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1025477</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Maria

This time for Maria I am strongly FOR using a computer that interacts with students. It is so difficult to work in a classroom teaching algebra with 45 students, where some still don&#039;t understand basic multiplication, and some students are ready for more challenging work. It presses the teacher to help the students  needs be met. But if we could have a computer that interacts with the students and focuses on their developmental level, it would be wonderful for each student because for a limited amount of time they could get their needs met.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Maria</p>
<p>This time for Maria I am strongly FOR using a computer that interacts with students. It is so difficult to work in a classroom teaching algebra with 45 students, where some still don&#8217;t understand basic multiplication, and some students are ready for more challenging work. It presses the teacher to help the students  needs be met. But if we could have a computer that interacts with the students and focuses on their developmental level, it would be wonderful for each student because for a limited amount of time they could get their needs met.</p>
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		<title>
		By: heather		</title>
		<link>/2013/pennies-pearson-and-the-mistakes-you-never-see-coming/#comment-1025473</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[heather]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 15:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18027#comment-1025473</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Tim Stirrup and @ Andrew

I liked both of your comments. I was shocked to hear that there is software out there. That would fee up a lot of time. And Andrew I think you could use the software since it is recorded for the teacher and review each problem. Then you will understand the student and have time free to invest in imaginative lesson planning. I would love to use software such as Tim suggested.

Thanks,

Heather]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Tim Stirrup and @ Andrew</p>
<p>I liked both of your comments. I was shocked to hear that there is software out there. That would fee up a lot of time. And Andrew I think you could use the software since it is recorded for the teacher and review each problem. Then you will understand the student and have time free to invest in imaginative lesson planning. I would love to use software such as Tim suggested.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Heather</p>
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