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	<title>
	Comments on: Sal Khan On The Difference Between Math And Wrestling Practice	</title>
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	<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/</link>
	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:22:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Brendan Murphy		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-1003109</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brendan Murphy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-1003109</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kevin,
My second year of teaching my students went from about 25% pass rate to about 85% pass rate. This was back in 2002 and they didn&#039;t directly test my students in 5th grade, however the majority of students have the same 3rd grade teacher and the same 5th grade teacher, so by the logic that says standardized testing is worth a damn I was the influence that changed. 

Therefore is my second year of teaching I was awesome and have been going steadily downhill since. Or the tests are suspect and they mean crap.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,<br />
My second year of teaching my students went from about 25% pass rate to about 85% pass rate. This was back in 2002 and they didn&#8217;t directly test my students in 5th grade, however the majority of students have the same 3rd grade teacher and the same 5th grade teacher, so by the logic that says standardized testing is worth a damn I was the influence that changed. </p>
<p>Therefore is my second year of teaching I was awesome and have been going steadily downhill since. Or the tests are suspect and they mean crap.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin Hall		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-1002802</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2013 15:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-1002802</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oops, forgot the link.  Here is the blog post on KA&#039;s blog:

http://schools.khanacademy.org/post/59054029309/oakland-unity-from-20th-percentile-to-99th-percentile

Here is the link to the free e-book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EP4XBJE/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il?ie=UTF8&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=B00EP4XBJE&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;tag=khanacad-20]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, forgot the link.  Here is the blog post on KA&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://schools.khanacademy.org/post/59054029309/oakland-unity-from-20th-percentile-to-99th-percentile" rel="nofollow ugc">http://schools.khanacademy.org/post/59054029309/oakland-unity-from-20th-percentile-to-99th-percentile</a></p>
<p>Here is the link to the free e-book:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EP4XBJE/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il?ie=UTF8&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=B00EP4XBJE&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;tag=khanacad-20" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EP4XBJE/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il?ie=UTF8&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=B00EP4XBJE&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;tag=khanacad-20</a></p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Kevin Hall		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-1002801</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Aug 2013 15:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-1002801</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just thought I&#039;d point out this recent (free) e-book on Kindle, describing how a charter school in California went from 20th percentile to 99th percentile using Khan Academy last year.  The thesis is that Sal Khan was exactly correct in his wrestling/math analogy, and that using KA in math class helps students build their self-reliance and confidence.

You may say the increase in test scores is an artifact of California&#039;s state tests--do they only test shallow learning? (I don&#039;t know, never seen them).  But a result that strong isn&#039;t nothing, and at a minimum, it points to the possibility that KA may actually help motivate students.

Then the question becomes, do you accept that form of motivation, in which students want to learn so they can get things right, raise their grades, and earn badges?  Or do you think that kind of motivation is not valuable in comparison to the motivation that leads students to be persistent in puzzling over a challenging problem they&#039;ve never seen before.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just thought I&#8217;d point out this recent (free) e-book on Kindle, describing how a charter school in California went from 20th percentile to 99th percentile using Khan Academy last year.  The thesis is that Sal Khan was exactly correct in his wrestling/math analogy, and that using KA in math class helps students build their self-reliance and confidence.</p>
<p>You may say the increase in test scores is an artifact of California&#8217;s state tests&#8211;do they only test shallow learning? (I don&#8217;t know, never seen them).  But a result that strong isn&#8217;t nothing, and at a minimum, it points to the possibility that KA may actually help motivate students.</p>
<p>Then the question becomes, do you accept that form of motivation, in which students want to learn so they can get things right, raise their grades, and earn badges?  Or do you think that kind of motivation is not valuable in comparison to the motivation that leads students to be persistent in puzzling over a challenging problem they&#8217;ve never seen before.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Josh Castle		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-792200</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Josh Castle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 18:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-792200</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Santosh: That&#039;s a fair point.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Santosh: That&#8217;s a fair point.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brendan Murphy		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-792080</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brendan Murphy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 15:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-792080</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Those who skip the junior varsity and play on varsity team would be those who CLEP out of the elementary class.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who skip the junior varsity and play on varsity team would be those who CLEP out of the elementary class.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Santosh Zachariah		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-792073</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Santosh Zachariah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 15:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-792073</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Josh, I do agree with much of what you say, and would only add that when a college allows a student to CLEP out of a course, they are making the assumption that demonstration of an understanding of the concepts also demonstrates sufficient Coordination and Strength.  

If one thinks of a course (in college or otherwise) as a ranger-led hike, there is an assumption that the students share a similar level of stamina, powers of observation, and fluency of vocabulary. Any student who is lacking in one of these will quickly find the hike boring or exhausting or both.

Much as &quot;drill-and-kill&quot; is unfashionable, I believe that part of the purpose of practice (in math or other subjects) is to develop the stamina, skills of observation (of patterns) and fluency of vocabulary.  I am not saying the practice has to be solely outside the school, or without a teacher/ranger/guide.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Josh, I do agree with much of what you say, and would only add that when a college allows a student to CLEP out of a course, they are making the assumption that demonstration of an understanding of the concepts also demonstrates sufficient Coordination and Strength.  </p>
<p>If one thinks of a course (in college or otherwise) as a ranger-led hike, there is an assumption that the students share a similar level of stamina, powers of observation, and fluency of vocabulary. Any student who is lacking in one of these will quickly find the hike boring or exhausting or both.</p>
<p>Much as &#8220;drill-and-kill&#8221; is unfashionable, I believe that part of the purpose of practice (in math or other subjects) is to develop the stamina, skills of observation (of patterns) and fluency of vocabulary.  I am not saying the practice has to be solely outside the school, or without a teacher/ranger/guide.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Josh Castle		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-792045</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Josh Castle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 14:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-792045</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The goal of sports practice is COORDINATION and STRENGTH, whereas the goal of math practice is DEFINITION and UNDERSTANDING. In other words, math practice takes a student through all the ins and outs and quirks and conundrums of a concept in hopes that they&#039;ll begin to grasp the shape of the concept. Hypothetically speaking, if a student understood all of the implications of a concept immediately upon reading its description, then practice would probably be unnecessary. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that colleges allow students to CLEP out of courses; i.e., if they demonstrate UNDERSTANDING of the concepts via a test, then they are not required to put in the practice time (writing papers, doing homework, taking tests, etc.). But that&#039;s not at all the case with sports practice; even if I understand football as well as John Madden, then it&#039;s still not the case that I should be allowed to play in the NFL. I have neither the strength nor the coordination to be of any use on a real football team, even if I fully grasp all of the rules and roles and plays of the game. But, of course, the converse is also true: physical strength and coordination are of little use on a math test.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The goal of sports practice is COORDINATION and STRENGTH, whereas the goal of math practice is DEFINITION and UNDERSTANDING. In other words, math practice takes a student through all the ins and outs and quirks and conundrums of a concept in hopes that they&#8217;ll begin to grasp the shape of the concept. Hypothetically speaking, if a student understood all of the implications of a concept immediately upon reading its description, then practice would probably be unnecessary. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that colleges allow students to CLEP out of courses; i.e., if they demonstrate UNDERSTANDING of the concepts via a test, then they are not required to put in the practice time (writing papers, doing homework, taking tests, etc.). But that&#8217;s not at all the case with sports practice; even if I understand football as well as John Madden, then it&#8217;s still not the case that I should be allowed to play in the NFL. I have neither the strength nor the coordination to be of any use on a real football team, even if I fully grasp all of the rules and roles and plays of the game. But, of course, the converse is also true: physical strength and coordination are of little use on a math test.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Homework and Coercion &#124; i^i		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-791438</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Homework and Coercion &#124; i^i]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 03:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-791438</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] I ran across a post from Dan Meyer on the differences between math practice and sports practice.Â  I thought the arguments his commenters make about the fact that sports practice is voluntary, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I ran across a post from Dan Meyer on the differences between math practice and sports practice.Â  I thought the arguments his commenters make about the fact that sports practice is voluntary, [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Tiny Math Games		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-788385</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Tiny Math Games]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 20:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-788385</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] one make an all-mathematics variant – mathematical scrimmages, so to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] one make an all-mathematics variant – mathematical scrimmages, so to [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: April Showers Bring &#8230; New Possibilities		</title>
		<link>/2013/sal-khan-on-the-difference-between-math-and-wrestling-practice/#comment-783206</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[April Showers Bring &#8230; New Possibilities]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 02:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16842#comment-783206</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Meyer (@ddmeyer) asked his blog readers the following question &#8220;What makes sports practice satisfying and how is sports practice different from math practice?&#8221; after hearing Sal Khan answer the same question in an interview. For anybody who teaches [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Meyer (@ddmeyer) asked his blog readers the following question &#8220;What makes sports practice satisfying and how is sports practice different from math practice?&#8221; after hearing Sal Khan answer the same question in an interview. For anybody who teaches [&#8230;]</p>
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