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	<title>
	Comments on: Twin Pressures On Good Novice Teachers	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		<title>
		By: The Value of an Educational Philosophy &#124; thegeometryteacher		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-749724</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Value of an Educational Philosophy &#124; thegeometryteacher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Mar 2013 23:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-749724</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] 2. Quality instruction focused on student engagement - Schools are driven by the educational experiences they are providing the students. Ideally, the students would beÂ provided high-quality educational experience every time a teacher is standing in front of them. High-quality means 100% engagement with appropriately-challenging content. High-quality means diverse experiences in the traditionally-academic disciplines (arts, sciences, history, literature)Â as well asÂ traditionally-non-academic disciplines (fine and performing arts, creative writing, physical education, culinary and hospitality, trade and industrial). High-quality means the students getting opportunities to create and solve problems&#8230; regularly. (Sir Ken Robinson (@SirKenRobinson)Â has fantastic things to say about this.) This requires teachers being provided time to collaborate and experimentÂ around resources demonstrating the best practices for each field. Also, this requires better mentoring of young teachers. (Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) has some interesting thoughts on this.) [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 2. Quality instruction focused on student engagement &#8211; Schools are driven by the educational experiences they are providing the students. Ideally, the students would beÂ provided high-quality educational experience every time a teacher is standing in front of them. High-quality means 100% engagement with appropriately-challenging content. High-quality means diverse experiences in the traditionally-academic disciplines (arts, sciences, history, literature)Â as well asÂ traditionally-non-academic disciplines (fine and performing arts, creative writing, physical education, culinary and hospitality, trade and industrial). High-quality means the students getting opportunities to create and solve problems&#8230; regularly. (Sir Ken Robinson (@SirKenRobinson)Â has fantastic things to say about this.) This requires teachers being provided time to collaborate and experimentÂ around resources demonstrating the best practices for each field. Also, this requires better mentoring of young teachers. (Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) has some interesting thoughts on this.) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben Blum-Smith		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-746923</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Blum-Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-746923</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Word.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Word.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-746752</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-746752</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your thoughts here, &lt;strong&gt;Ben&lt;/strong&gt;. The Internet indignation machine kind of spun itself up to 11 about &quot;unchallenging,&quot; which killed my interest in re-engaging or correcting the record.

That said, if I had to write it again, I&#039;d say &quot;the challenge of the job transmutes into something less satisfying than it was, while the costs of the job remain constant.&quot;

Just like we should question anybody who says they&#039;re done learning about how students learn after two years teaching, I also question if I&#039;d learn as much about learning in year six through eight as I did in years one through three. Meanwhile the demands of the job remained the same. In six years, the hours spent planning and grading remained constant. That&#039;s some pressure.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts here, <strong>Ben</strong>. The Internet indignation machine kind of spun itself up to 11 about &#8220;unchallenging,&#8221; which killed my interest in re-engaging or correcting the record.</p>
<p>That said, if I had to write it again, I&#8217;d say &#8220;the challenge of the job transmutes into something less satisfying than it was, while the costs of the job remain constant.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just like we should question anybody who says they&#8217;re done learning about how students learn after two years teaching, I also question if I&#8217;d learn as much about learning in year six through eight as I did in years one through three. Meanwhile the demands of the job remained the same. In six years, the hours spent planning and grading remained constant. That&#8217;s some pressure.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben Blum-Smith		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-743601</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Blum-Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 14:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-743601</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What I have to say echoes some themes that are getting airtime across the comment thread (P. J. Karafiol, Grace, Tom Hoffman, Chris Robinson, Pam Hall, ...) but I want to make sure it gets highlighted.

Dan, I was initially horrified by your characterization of &quot;the rock&quot;. I thought you were echoing something I sometimes hear from ambitious folks in their late 20s which always pisses me the f*ck off, along the lines of &quot;I decided to move on because I wasn&#039;t challenged any more.&quot; If you are unchallenged after 5-6 years of teaching, then to paraphrase Ludacris, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc4G6tOgOYI#t=2m49s&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;you just ain&#039;t doin&#039; it right&lt;/a&gt;. Do you mean that your classroom now functions moderately smoothly and you have a couple years of experience with your curriculum? Fine, what thought have you given to experimenting with classroom structures? To exploring questioning techniques? Have you really mastered the collection and use of formative assessment? How about the question of how your curriculum responds to kiddies with different levels of understanding? Does every task you bring to the classroom admit multiple levels of entry? Have you thought about experimenting with your classroom community building? This list of questions is a 10-second brainstorm from somebody with only 1 decade in education. You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes, and you&#039;re insulting both the profession, and all career educators in particular, with your ignorance.

Then I calmed myself down. You, Dan, of all people, obviously know this. You&#039;ve been writing for 6 years about fine points in curriculum and task design like you know you could keep doing it forever, and that&#039;s just one little corner of the pedagogy universe.

Given that, what could &quot;unchallenging&quot; be referring to? Well, I can&#039;t know exactly what you meant, but numerous comments have pointed out the way that the &lt;i&gt;structure&lt;/i&gt; of the profession makes it difficult for folks with serious professional ambitions to feel those ambitions continue to be expressed within the classroom. I think this is a flaw in the structure and that it is remediable, but the remedy is heading in a different direction from where the ship currently seems to be sailing. To wit, toward decreasing teachers&#039; classroom and administrative responsibilities to create room for reflection and serious growth initiatives (cf. Tom Hoffman), such as critical friends groups and lesson study, which would of course also help with the personal-unsustainability part of the issue (&quot;the hard place&quot;), increasing our creative autonomy, especially our &lt;i&gt;collective&lt;/i&gt; autonomy, increasing the amount of interaction and visibility between individual classrooms and the communities that surround them (first, other teachers; second, parents; third, the whole community), and fourth, more and more varied opportunities for teachers to exercise leadership (I am a big fan of serious mentoring programs).

The thing I want to drive home is to clearly distinguish two possibilities for where &quot;unchallenging&quot; is coming from, and make sure everybody&#039;s clear on which one they&#039;re talking about: is it the nuts and bolts of the job, or is it the structure of the profession?

As an aside, my own leaving the full-time classroom was governed almost entirely by lifestyle considerations; however, after the fact I discovered that it also freed me up to explore my educational values much more deeply. The proximate motivator was that I was in a serious relationship on which my schedule was taking a toll, but more generally I was done with the too-thin, too-permeable membrane that you mentioned between my job and the rest of my mental and physical existence. After I left, though, I discovered that I was also tremendously relieved and rejuvenated to no longer be compromising what I cared about educationally because of the mismatch between the expected curriculum, the kids&#039; prior knowledge, and the calendar (cf. Chris Robinson&#039;s comment). Being involved in education in other, less regimented ways has allowed me to bring my teaching practice into much deeper alignment with my educational values. (I&#039;d love for the structure of the profession to make room for this kind of exploration of values, but again, things seem to be headed in the other direction.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I have to say echoes some themes that are getting airtime across the comment thread (P. J. Karafiol, Grace, Tom Hoffman, Chris Robinson, Pam Hall, &#8230;) but I want to make sure it gets highlighted.</p>
<p>Dan, I was initially horrified by your characterization of &#8220;the rock&#8221;. I thought you were echoing something I sometimes hear from ambitious folks in their late 20s which always pisses me the f*ck off, along the lines of &#8220;I decided to move on because I wasn&#8217;t challenged any more.&#8221; If you are unchallenged after 5-6 years of teaching, then to paraphrase Ludacris, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc4G6tOgOYI#t=2m49s" rel="nofollow">you just ain&#8217;t doin&#8217; it right</a>. Do you mean that your classroom now functions moderately smoothly and you have a couple years of experience with your curriculum? Fine, what thought have you given to experimenting with classroom structures? To exploring questioning techniques? Have you really mastered the collection and use of formative assessment? How about the question of how your curriculum responds to kiddies with different levels of understanding? Does every task you bring to the classroom admit multiple levels of entry? Have you thought about experimenting with your classroom community building? This list of questions is a 10-second brainstorm from somebody with only 1 decade in education. You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes, and you&#8217;re insulting both the profession, and all career educators in particular, with your ignorance.</p>
<p>Then I calmed myself down. You, Dan, of all people, obviously know this. You&#8217;ve been writing for 6 years about fine points in curriculum and task design like you know you could keep doing it forever, and that&#8217;s just one little corner of the pedagogy universe.</p>
<p>Given that, what could &#8220;unchallenging&#8221; be referring to? Well, I can&#8217;t know exactly what you meant, but numerous comments have pointed out the way that the <i>structure</i> of the profession makes it difficult for folks with serious professional ambitions to feel those ambitions continue to be expressed within the classroom. I think this is a flaw in the structure and that it is remediable, but the remedy is heading in a different direction from where the ship currently seems to be sailing. To wit, toward decreasing teachers&#8217; classroom and administrative responsibilities to create room for reflection and serious growth initiatives (cf. Tom Hoffman), such as critical friends groups and lesson study, which would of course also help with the personal-unsustainability part of the issue (&#8220;the hard place&#8221;), increasing our creative autonomy, especially our <i>collective</i> autonomy, increasing the amount of interaction and visibility between individual classrooms and the communities that surround them (first, other teachers; second, parents; third, the whole community), and fourth, more and more varied opportunities for teachers to exercise leadership (I am a big fan of serious mentoring programs).</p>
<p>The thing I want to drive home is to clearly distinguish two possibilities for where &#8220;unchallenging&#8221; is coming from, and make sure everybody&#8217;s clear on which one they&#8217;re talking about: is it the nuts and bolts of the job, or is it the structure of the profession?</p>
<p>As an aside, my own leaving the full-time classroom was governed almost entirely by lifestyle considerations; however, after the fact I discovered that it also freed me up to explore my educational values much more deeply. The proximate motivator was that I was in a serious relationship on which my schedule was taking a toll, but more generally I was done with the too-thin, too-permeable membrane that you mentioned between my job and the rest of my mental and physical existence. After I left, though, I discovered that I was also tremendously relieved and rejuvenated to no longer be compromising what I cared about educationally because of the mismatch between the expected curriculum, the kids&#8217; prior knowledge, and the calendar (cf. Chris Robinson&#8217;s comment). Being involved in education in other, less regimented ways has allowed me to bring my teaching practice into much deeper alignment with my educational values. (I&#8217;d love for the structure of the profession to make room for this kind of exploration of values, but again, things seem to be headed in the other direction.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: A+ Certified Literate, Compliant and Humane &#171; Tie And Jeans		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-725578</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A+ Certified Literate, Compliant and Humane &#171; Tie And Jeans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-725578</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] is slightly different than the discussion Dan hosted about the lack of feedback from the system of school that will push you to do your best work, or [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] is slightly different than the discussion Dan hosted about the lack of feedback from the system of school that will push you to do your best work, or [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chett		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-724209</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-724209</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tom, et all, 

My apologies, I didn&#039;t mean I haven&#039;t been, or am not still challenged, I only meant that I see a lot of truth in what was posted earlier.  

Truthfully, I am challenged everyday, but I also see my creative side being pushed to the background as I get more and more Worn down by the day to day side of what I do.  My thoughts have been turning to ways to lessen the grinding part of teaching, if that is even possible, and open up more avenues for time to be creative and inventive with lessons and new types of assessment.  

I have just been playing with some ideas in the tech world and was wondering what people thought about a way to make math assessment paperless and social at the same time. Something that would organize a students work while allowing them to venture out to get help from the net and possible other teachers as well.

Hopefully I didn&#039;t offend anyone, I am just looking for some insight into whether real teachers would be interested in the concept.

Thanks]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, et all, </p>
<p>My apologies, I didn&#8217;t mean I haven&#8217;t been, or am not still challenged, I only meant that I see a lot of truth in what was posted earlier.  </p>
<p>Truthfully, I am challenged everyday, but I also see my creative side being pushed to the background as I get more and more Worn down by the day to day side of what I do.  My thoughts have been turning to ways to lessen the grinding part of teaching, if that is even possible, and open up more avenues for time to be creative and inventive with lessons and new types of assessment.  </p>
<p>I have just been playing with some ideas in the tech world and was wondering what people thought about a way to make math assessment paperless and social at the same time. Something that would organize a students work while allowing them to venture out to get help from the net and possible other teachers as well.</p>
<p>Hopefully I didn&#8217;t offend anyone, I am just looking for some insight into whether real teachers would be interested in the concept.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Hoffman		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-724181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Hoffman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-724181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you don&#039;t feel challenged after two years of teaching, you have not even begun to understand the profession.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#8217;t feel challenged after two years of teaching, you have not even begun to understand the profession.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chett		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-724141</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-724141</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is for an opinion poll. I&#039;m a new teacher, 2 years in, and a lot of what had been said is true about the need for new challenges, and looking for something else soon. I am looking to startup an Ed-tech company designed to make teachers lives easier using tablets to streamline assessment and lesson planning. I&#039;m wondering what people&#039;s thoughts are on something like this? Would people be interested in software that makes assessment paperless?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is for an opinion poll. I&#8217;m a new teacher, 2 years in, and a lot of what had been said is true about the need for new challenges, and looking for something else soon. I am looking to startup an Ed-tech company designed to make teachers lives easier using tablets to streamline assessment and lesson planning. I&#8217;m wondering what people&#8217;s thoughts are on something like this? Would people be interested in software that makes assessment paperless?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Lemay		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-722252</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Lemay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2013 17:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-722252</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How have I lasted 25 years (one school for the first 8 and this current one for 17)?

I too enjoy developing what I think is good content delivery. I also am enjoying implementing the use of technology to help students learn. I am one of the Ed tech leaders in my school. The young teachers have nothing on me in that light. I put in a lot of time every week developing the week&#039;s plans. Is every lesson a major success? Hardly and I&#039;ll call any teacher that claims otherwise a liar.

I&#039;m concerned about the lack of success on NECAP tests by our students. We are alway just below the State average( sometimes a little too much below). One change over the years that must be a factor here is that today&#039;s students seem to have shorter retention spans. They can&#039;t remember things. At this point, my annual evaluation doesn&#039;t have testing data as a component. I hope my State is wise enough not to mandate this by law.

I am getting tired of managing a classroom. The retirement system says 6 more years. I&#039;ll be honest that for many years now it has been the breaks and the shortening summer breaks that has held my interest in this career. The chance to recharge and plan is greatly appreciated.

Financially,  I work the two jobs (HS and teaching cc courses every semester) to support the family. I&#039;ve been doing this since Fall&#039;93. The work load is intense but it pays the bills.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How have I lasted 25 years (one school for the first 8 and this current one for 17)?</p>
<p>I too enjoy developing what I think is good content delivery. I also am enjoying implementing the use of technology to help students learn. I am one of the Ed tech leaders in my school. The young teachers have nothing on me in that light. I put in a lot of time every week developing the week&#8217;s plans. Is every lesson a major success? Hardly and I&#8217;ll call any teacher that claims otherwise a liar.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m concerned about the lack of success on NECAP tests by our students. We are alway just below the State average( sometimes a little too much below). One change over the years that must be a factor here is that today&#8217;s students seem to have shorter retention spans. They can&#8217;t remember things. At this point, my annual evaluation doesn&#8217;t have testing data as a component. I hope my State is wise enough not to mandate this by law.</p>
<p>I am getting tired of managing a classroom. The retirement system says 6 more years. I&#8217;ll be honest that for many years now it has been the breaks and the shortening summer breaks that has held my interest in this career. The chance to recharge and plan is greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>Financially,  I work the two jobs (HS and teaching cc courses every semester) to support the family. I&#8217;ve been doing this since Fall&#8217;93. The work load is intense but it pays the bills.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MsPoodry		</title>
		<link>/2013/twin-pressures-on-good-novice-teachers/#comment-720495</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MsPoodry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=16323#comment-720495</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with S&#039;s first two statements. I love teaching more every year and I get better at it every year, and I certainly still feel challenged. But I have made the challenges myself. I challenged myself to switch to SBG, I challenged myself to get the money to get the lab equipment for the too-large AP Physics class, I challenge myself to work around non-functional and partially-functional technology to make meaningful and relevant lessons.

I have been challenging myself for 20 years in the classroom. How did I make it past the first few years? DESPERATION. I had no other job prospects, I had no idea what else I could do, and I had student loans to pay off. But I am now considering the possibility of switching to an independent school, which would likely come with a pay cut. Why? These gosh darned testing mandates. Next month I will find out that all my juniors didn&#039;t score &quot;proficient&quot; on the Biology Keystone exam. Even though I teach physics, it will be my job to prepare them to re-take the exam in May. My annual evaluation, as a teacher, must BY STATE LAW be partially based on my students&#039; scores. The politicians are trying to destroy public education. I might decide to save myself before that, or I might go down with the ship.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with S&#8217;s first two statements. I love teaching more every year and I get better at it every year, and I certainly still feel challenged. But I have made the challenges myself. I challenged myself to switch to SBG, I challenged myself to get the money to get the lab equipment for the too-large AP Physics class, I challenge myself to work around non-functional and partially-functional technology to make meaningful and relevant lessons.</p>
<p>I have been challenging myself for 20 years in the classroom. How did I make it past the first few years? DESPERATION. I had no other job prospects, I had no idea what else I could do, and I had student loans to pay off. But I am now considering the possibility of switching to an independent school, which would likely come with a pay cut. Why? These gosh darned testing mandates. Next month I will find out that all my juniors didn&#8217;t score &#8220;proficient&#8221; on the Biology Keystone exam. Even though I teach physics, it will be my job to prepare them to re-take the exam in May. My annual evaluation, as a teacher, must BY STATE LAW be partially based on my students&#8217; scores. The politicians are trying to destroy public education. I might decide to save myself before that, or I might go down with the ship.</p>
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