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	<title>
	Comments on: Uri Treisman&#8217;s Magnificent Speech On Equity, Race, And The Opportunity To Learn	</title>
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	<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/</link>
	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2014 23:45:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; NCTM 2014 Schedule		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-1500883</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; NCTM 2014 Schedule]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2014 23:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-1500883</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] his exceptional address last year, I don&#039;t even check Uri Treisman&#039;s titles or descriptions [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] his exceptional address last year, I don&#039;t even check Uri Treisman&#039;s titles or descriptions [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: cheesemonkeysf		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-1140637</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cheesemonkeysf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-1140637</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I went back and listened to this talk again because I wanted to capture another &quot;Highly Quotable&quot; insight that has been echoing in my mind for a couple weeks now. It comes in Treisman&#039;s answer to the first questioner:

&quot;One of the consequences of the current reform emphasis is that it&#039;s taken the focus away from one of the central roles of schooling in a diverse society, and that is as places that produce citizens with a deep commitment to democratic ideals.

In the 1920s, our schools were places that forged this common identity in a diverse society and we need to return our schools to being places of forging a complex American identity with a commitment to the things that make us a country, which are *ideas*, not blood.&quot;

Thanks again for putting together the video and the slides.

- Elizabeth (@cheesemonkeysf)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went back and listened to this talk again because I wanted to capture another &#8220;Highly Quotable&#8221; insight that has been echoing in my mind for a couple weeks now. It comes in Treisman&#8217;s answer to the first questioner:</p>
<p>&#8220;One of the consequences of the current reform emphasis is that it&#8217;s taken the focus away from one of the central roles of schooling in a diverse society, and that is as places that produce citizens with a deep commitment to democratic ideals.</p>
<p>In the 1920s, our schools were places that forged this common identity in a diverse society and we need to return our schools to being places of forging a complex American identity with a commitment to the things that make us a country, which are *ideas*, not blood.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks again for putting together the video and the slides.</p>
<p>&#8211; Elizabeth (@cheesemonkeysf)</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Fault-Tolerant School		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-964014</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Fault-Tolerant School]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jul 2013 19:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-964014</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Treisman gave a near-perfect talk on race, poverty, and equity at NCTM 2013 (which I trust you&#039;ve now seen at least once) but he left [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Treisman gave a near-perfect talk on race, poverty, and equity at NCTM 2013 (which I trust you&#039;ve now seen at least once) but he left [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: opportunity &#124; sonata mathematique		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-960295</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[opportunity &#124; sonata mathematique]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jul 2013 04:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-960295</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] me as I watched. Then right after I finished the video, I found Dan&#8217;s post from May where he did the same thing. (And dumb me for not stumbling upon it earlier, because that side by side video/powerpoint would [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] me as I watched. Then right after I finished the video, I found Dan&#8217;s post from May where he did the same thing. (And dumb me for not stumbling upon it earlier, because that side by side video/powerpoint would [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Gathering Of The High Council Of The Math Teacher Bloggers		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-953316</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Gathering Of The High Council Of The Math Teacher Bloggers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jun 2013 03:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-953316</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] tried to have an opinion. Most of them were wrong, but I respected bloggers who wrote about their own opinions as well other people&#039;s. So that&#039;s how [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] tried to have an opinion. Most of them were wrong, but I respected bloggers who wrote about their own opinions as well other people&#039;s. So that&#039;s how [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-946726</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jun 2013 18:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-946726</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi &lt;strong&gt;Collin&lt;/strong&gt;, I appreciate you letting me off the hook with that last line there but it does matter to me how I represent myself online.

I think you read those posts accurately, but any post with an ID in the double- or even triple-digits was written nearly ten years ago. There are &lt;a href=&quot;/?p=49&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;other posts&lt;/a&gt; I&#039;ve thought about deleting but which I leave around a) to illustrate one teacher&#039;s process of change and b) to remind myself to chill out a little bit and remember that ten years from &lt;em&gt;now&lt;/em&gt; I may regard my most cherished ideas as more jackassery.

My current state of mind:

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The CCSS for math are quite a lot better than the standards I labored under in California for six years. I&#039;m glad we adopted them. (See &lt;a href=&quot;http://mr-stadel.blogspot.com/2013/06/cst-and-sbac-questions.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Andrew Stadel&#039;s comparison&lt;/a&gt;.)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;I&#039;m convinced by existing research on merit pay that it won&#039;t achieve its goals while also having negative knock-on effects.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;I want good assessments that measure things we should care about. The &lt;a href=&quot;https://sbacpt.tds.airast.org/student/login.aspx?c=SBAC_PT&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;current SBAC preview test&lt;/a&gt; looks encouraging.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Those tests shouldn&#039;t account for more than a small fraction (say 20%) of the decision to retain or fire a teacher. They&#039;re too unstable, with teachers ranking great one year and ranking terrible the next. I don&#039;t trust them.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

Might change my mind tomorrow, though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi <strong>Collin</strong>, I appreciate you letting me off the hook with that last line there but it does matter to me how I represent myself online.</p>
<p>I think you read those posts accurately, but any post with an ID in the double- or even triple-digits was written nearly ten years ago. There are <a href="/?p=49" rel="nofollow">other posts</a> I&#8217;ve thought about deleting but which I leave around a) to illustrate one teacher&#8217;s process of change and b) to remind myself to chill out a little bit and remember that ten years from <em>now</em> I may regard my most cherished ideas as more jackassery.</p>
<p>My current state of mind:</p>
<ul>
<li>The CCSS for math are quite a lot better than the standards I labored under in California for six years. I&#8217;m glad we adopted them. (See <a href="http://mr-stadel.blogspot.com/2013/06/cst-and-sbac-questions.html" rel="nofollow">Andrew Stadel&#8217;s comparison</a>.)</li>
<li>I&#8217;m convinced by existing research on merit pay that it won&#8217;t achieve its goals while also having negative knock-on effects.</li>
<li>I want good assessments that measure things we should care about. The <a href="https://sbacpt.tds.airast.org/student/login.aspx?c=SBAC_PT" rel="nofollow">current SBAC preview test</a> looks encouraging.</li>
<li>Those tests shouldn&#8217;t account for more than a small fraction (say 20%) of the decision to retain or fire a teacher. They&#8217;re too unstable, with teachers ranking great one year and ranking terrible the next. I don&#8217;t trust them.</li>
</ul>
<p>Might change my mind tomorrow, though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Collin		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-945984</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Collin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jun 2013 05:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-945984</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh crud, I bet you&#039;re right. I may even be confused on the general details of the issues here, and not just on your stance. I&#039;m not even a teacher (yet), and so my mental picture of the education world is still fuzzy. Though I am trying to unfuzz it.

This is my mental picture as of now: 

There is a controversial &quot;accountability&quot; issue diving the education world into two camps. I&#039;m not entirely sure yet who I agree with.

The first camp liked the message of &quot;Waiting for Superman,&quot; and they believe in a Michelle-Rhee-like approach to dealing with bad teachers and bad schools. That is, carry out standardized testing to see how everyone is doing, then pay them accordingly - and if they do very badly, fire the teacher or close the school. This way teachers and schools are held accountable for doing their jobs, and lazy/awful teachers can&#039;t get away with getting paid while their kids suffer.

The second camp includes people like Diane Ravitch and Pasi Sahlberg, and the entire nation of Finland. They believe that the way to improve teaching is to try to make it a more attractive and respected profession (with higher pay, union membership, lots of teacher support, and higher barriers to entry), and then more young, smart, motivated people will try to become teachers, for the same reason they try to become doctors now. This camp opposes merit pay and high-stakes tests, on the basis that having to &quot;teach to the test&quot; impairs teaching, and that teachers will do better if they are trusted rather than subjected to frequent evaluation.

I had mentally placed you in Camp One because of these posts from years past:

/?p=61
/?p=971
(Although, upon further review, that second one is about an *opt-in* merit pay system.)

I put Uri Treisman in Camp Two because of the slide with &quot;Campbell&#039;s Law,&quot; where he said, &quot;High-stakes assessment produces compulsive focus on narrow parts of schooling.&quot; Also, his claim that poverty rather than teaching is the biggest cause of kids&#039; academic failure seemed characteristic of the second camp, who frequently blame No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top for using high-stakes testing to justify taking money away from poor schools.

But in reality, people&#039;s positions on this are probably too complex to be expressed in a single bit, and I shouldn&#039;t be pasting Camp One and Camp Two labels on people right and left. What&#039;s your actual stance?

(The answer will not affect my high level of respect for you - not that you should care about how much an unknown internet person respects you, because that&#039;s not healthy.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh crud, I bet you&#8217;re right. I may even be confused on the general details of the issues here, and not just on your stance. I&#8217;m not even a teacher (yet), and so my mental picture of the education world is still fuzzy. Though I am trying to unfuzz it.</p>
<p>This is my mental picture as of now: </p>
<p>There is a controversial &#8220;accountability&#8221; issue diving the education world into two camps. I&#8217;m not entirely sure yet who I agree with.</p>
<p>The first camp liked the message of &#8220;Waiting for Superman,&#8221; and they believe in a Michelle-Rhee-like approach to dealing with bad teachers and bad schools. That is, carry out standardized testing to see how everyone is doing, then pay them accordingly &#8211; and if they do very badly, fire the teacher or close the school. This way teachers and schools are held accountable for doing their jobs, and lazy/awful teachers can&#8217;t get away with getting paid while their kids suffer.</p>
<p>The second camp includes people like Diane Ravitch and Pasi Sahlberg, and the entire nation of Finland. They believe that the way to improve teaching is to try to make it a more attractive and respected profession (with higher pay, union membership, lots of teacher support, and higher barriers to entry), and then more young, smart, motivated people will try to become teachers, for the same reason they try to become doctors now. This camp opposes merit pay and high-stakes tests, on the basis that having to &#8220;teach to the test&#8221; impairs teaching, and that teachers will do better if they are trusted rather than subjected to frequent evaluation.</p>
<p>I had mentally placed you in Camp One because of these posts from years past:</p>
<p><a href="/?p=61" rel="ugc">/?p=61</a><br />
<a href="/?p=971" rel="ugc">/?p=971</a><br />
(Although, upon further review, that second one is about an *opt-in* merit pay system.)</p>
<p>I put Uri Treisman in Camp Two because of the slide with &#8220;Campbell&#8217;s Law,&#8221; where he said, &#8220;High-stakes assessment produces compulsive focus on narrow parts of schooling.&#8221; Also, his claim that poverty rather than teaching is the biggest cause of kids&#8217; academic failure seemed characteristic of the second camp, who frequently blame No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top for using high-stakes testing to justify taking money away from poor schools.</p>
<p>But in reality, people&#8217;s positions on this are probably too complex to be expressed in a single bit, and I shouldn&#8217;t be pasting Camp One and Camp Two labels on people right and left. What&#8217;s your actual stance?</p>
<p>(The answer will not affect my high level of respect for you &#8211; not that you should care about how much an unknown internet person respects you, because that&#8217;s not healthy.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-945797</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-945797</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi &lt;strong&gt;Collin&lt;/strong&gt;, I&#039;m always happy to accept Nonpartisan Cool Person Points but I&#039;m afraid you may have confused my stance on all of the above. Please feel free to let me know which posts you&#039;re referring to.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi <strong>Collin</strong>, I&#8217;m always happy to accept Nonpartisan Cool Person Points but I&#8217;m afraid you may have confused my stance on all of the above. Please feel free to let me know which posts you&#8217;re referring to.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Collin		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-945670</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Collin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-945670</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dan, aren&#039;t you in favor of high-stakes testing and merit pay for teachers and accountability and all that stuff? This guy is definitely on the other side of that battle. And yet, here you are, boosting his signal, because you think that what he has to say is important! That shows true democratic spirit.

+10 Levelheaded, Nonpartisan Cool Person Points for you!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, aren&#8217;t you in favor of high-stakes testing and merit pay for teachers and accountability and all that stuff? This guy is definitely on the other side of that battle. And yet, here you are, boosting his signal, because you think that what he has to say is important! That shows true democratic spirit.</p>
<p>+10 Levelheaded, Nonpartisan Cool Person Points for you!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joel Walsh		</title>
		<link>/2013/uri-treismans-magnificent-speech-on-equity-race-and-the-opportunity-to-learn/#comment-936187</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joel Walsh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=17047#comment-936187</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To me, the notion of a school as a fault tolerant system has a different meaning than it might for most. I teach high school math in the Watts district of Los Angeles. Sometimes we get a class with lower English language proficiency levels than most, or with more behavioral problems than most. You can train teachers in conflict resolution, SDAIE strategies, etc. This solves some problems, but not all. Until all high-poverty schools have built in redundancies like social-emotional counseling or small group language instruction, the plane will continue to fail mid-air.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, the notion of a school as a fault tolerant system has a different meaning than it might for most. I teach high school math in the Watts district of Los Angeles. Sometimes we get a class with lower English language proficiency levels than most, or with more behavioral problems than most. You can train teachers in conflict resolution, SDAIE strategies, etc. This solves some problems, but not all. Until all high-poverty schools have built in redundancies like social-emotional counseling or small group language instruction, the plane will continue to fail mid-air.</p>
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