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	Comments on: Dear Mathalicious: Which Of These Questions Is &#8220;Real World&#8221;?	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		By: Stephen Cavadino		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1524028</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen Cavadino]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2014 16:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1524028</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[At something in history, someone decided &quot;Maths needs to be more &quot;real life&quot;&quot; and since then boards the world over have insisted on shoving context into questions for no good reason. If a question doesn&#039;t need context don&#039;t shove it on, and certainly don&#039;t put ridiculous context in thar makes no sense! I&#039;ve ranted before here: http://wp.me/p2z9Lp-9R]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At something in history, someone decided &#8220;Maths needs to be more &#8220;real life&#8221;&#8221; and since then boards the world over have insisted on shoving context into questions for no good reason. If a question doesn&#8217;t need context don&#8217;t shove it on, and certainly don&#8217;t put ridiculous context in thar makes no sense! I&#8217;ve ranted before here: <a href="http://wp.me/p2z9Lp-9R" rel="nofollow ugc">http://wp.me/p2z9Lp-9R</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: EB		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1518068</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2014 20:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1518068</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is another dimension to this issue of &quot;real world&quot; versus &quot;interesting,&quot;  and a few have touched on it.  Real world to whom?  interesting to whom?  even among a group of high schools students all more or less the same age, some problems will seem &quot;real world&quot; to one group of students, others to other groups.  A few students will understand that pretty much all of the problems presented in Algebra or Geometry COULD be &quot;real world,&quot; in application for them, within a few years.  Another group might find pretty much any problem that is new to be &quot;interesting.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is another dimension to this issue of &#8220;real world&#8221; versus &#8220;interesting,&#8221;  and a few have touched on it.  Real world to whom?  interesting to whom?  even among a group of high schools students all more or less the same age, some problems will seem &#8220;real world&#8221; to one group of students, others to other groups.  A few students will understand that pretty much all of the problems presented in Algebra or Geometry COULD be &#8220;real world,&#8221; in application for them, within a few years.  Another group might find pretty much any problem that is new to be &#8220;interesting.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Stephen		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1444062</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2014 02:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1444062</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It strikes me that the best way to get students saying &quot;hey, I see the point of this&quot; with regards to math is to give them a question they want to know the answer to FIRST, and then give them the math needed.

It also strikes me that the reason why we&#039;ve been teaching it the other way around for so long (start from &quot;here&#039;s some math&quot; and then &quot;here&#039;s a sucky question we can ask about it&quot;) is that as teachers we DO start from content objectives that need to be taught, and planning backwards is hard. I don&#039;t have good supplies. I don&#039;t have enough time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It strikes me that the best way to get students saying &#8220;hey, I see the point of this&#8221; with regards to math is to give them a question they want to know the answer to FIRST, and then give them the math needed.</p>
<p>It also strikes me that the reason why we&#8217;ve been teaching it the other way around for so long (start from &#8220;here&#8217;s some math&#8221; and then &#8220;here&#8217;s a sucky question we can ask about it&#8221;) is that as teachers we DO start from content objectives that need to be taught, and planning backwards is hard. I don&#8217;t have good supplies. I don&#8217;t have enough time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Noble Math		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1440914</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Noble Math]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1440914</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] really appreciate Dan Meyer&#8217;s post on real world vs fake world and getting the MTBOS to help define what makes a problem &#8220;real [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] really appreciate Dan Meyer&#8217;s post on real world vs fake world and getting the MTBOS to help define what makes a problem &#8220;real [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: Ava Erickson		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1436173</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ava Erickson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2014 15:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1436173</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think Real World Math also has to so with how you solve a problem or how you allow or encourage students to solve a problem.

Here&#039;s an example.  You have a pizza cut into 8 pieces but only 6 pieces are are left.  Four friends want to share the pizza evenly.  

If you ask the question, &quot;How much pizza does each person get?&quot;, a student might figure: Give each person one piece.  There are two pieces left.  Cut each of those in half and give a half piece to each friend.  Each person gets one and a half slices.  (You could push students further to come up with 3/16.)

But if the question is phrased, &quot;What fraction of the pizza will each person get?&quot; Then you might get students to use fraction division.  (6/8) / 4 = 3/16.  The context might be real world but the solution will be artificial.  Who does fraction division in the real world?  It&#039;s hard to think of genuine contexts.  I usually end up doing some combination of addition, subtraction and multiplication before I pull out fraction division. 

So I think how we encourage students to use their problem solving skills in a way that is natural and intuitive is also an important component of Real World Math.  It&#039;s not just about context.

(That said we do want to encourage students to grow their toolbox of math skills that feel comfortable and intuitive.  We certainly don&#039;t want our high school students to continue adding repeatedly instead of using multiplication.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Real World Math also has to so with how you solve a problem or how you allow or encourage students to solve a problem.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an example.  You have a pizza cut into 8 pieces but only 6 pieces are are left.  Four friends want to share the pizza evenly.  </p>
<p>If you ask the question, &#8220;How much pizza does each person get?&#8221;, a student might figure: Give each person one piece.  There are two pieces left.  Cut each of those in half and give a half piece to each friend.  Each person gets one and a half slices.  (You could push students further to come up with 3/16.)</p>
<p>But if the question is phrased, &#8220;What fraction of the pizza will each person get?&#8221; Then you might get students to use fraction division.  (6/8) / 4 = 3/16.  The context might be real world but the solution will be artificial.  Who does fraction division in the real world?  It&#8217;s hard to think of genuine contexts.  I usually end up doing some combination of addition, subtraction and multiplication before I pull out fraction division. </p>
<p>So I think how we encourage students to use their problem solving skills in a way that is natural and intuitive is also an important component of Real World Math.  It&#8217;s not just about context.</p>
<p>(That said we do want to encourage students to grow their toolbox of math skills that feel comfortable and intuitive.  We certainly don&#8217;t want our high school students to continue adding repeatedly instead of using multiplication.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rene		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1428896</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2014 14:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1428896</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The question should be if the problem is motivating, not if its real world. That is not necessarily linked. 

What is motivating?

- Acceptance. It this a problem that is accepted in my social environment to waste time upon? This many be connected to the realworldness of a problem.

- Reward. Do I earn respect for the solution I might get?

- Mastership. Is it a nice problem to try my skills on? Can I solve it? Maybe this is the strongest motivation. You can replace &quot;I&quot; by &quot;we&quot;.

Assume you tell your parents about this problem and the reaction is no reaction, plus someone in the class has solved it before, and you do not really understand the problem, nor do you have any clue on it. That&#039;s a bad problem.

Sorry. You were asking about which presentation is more real world. Does not matter! All that matters is that you create an environment for motivation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question should be if the problem is motivating, not if its real world. That is not necessarily linked. </p>
<p>What is motivating?</p>
<p>&#8211; Acceptance. It this a problem that is accepted in my social environment to waste time upon? This many be connected to the realworldness of a problem.</p>
<p>&#8211; Reward. Do I earn respect for the solution I might get?</p>
<p>&#8211; Mastership. Is it a nice problem to try my skills on? Can I solve it? Maybe this is the strongest motivation. You can replace &#8220;I&#8221; by &#8220;we&#8221;.</p>
<p>Assume you tell your parents about this problem and the reaction is no reaction, plus someone in the class has solved it before, and you do not really understand the problem, nor do you have any clue on it. That&#8217;s a bad problem.</p>
<p>Sorry. You were asking about which presentation is more real world. Does not matter! All that matters is that you create an environment for motivation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Reality Check &#124; Lines and Lines of Tangency		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1406208</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reality Check &#124; Lines and Lines of Tangency]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2014 14:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1406208</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] two cubits in length, thou shalt write thine own damn post.), here is my personal response to Dan&#039;s latest question.Â  To be clear: even though the question was put to Mathalicious generally, and even though I [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] two cubits in length, thou shalt write thine own damn post.), here is my personal response to Dan&#039;s latest question.Â  To be clear: even though the question was put to Mathalicious generally, and even though I [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [Fake World] Real-World Math Proves Tough To Pin Down		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1399234</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dy/dan &#187; Blog Archive &#187; [Fake World] Real-World Math Proves Tough To Pin Down]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1399234</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] are some closing words about &#034;real world&#034; math, mostly distilled from your comments on the last post. As with previous investigations, I am indebted to the folks who stop by this blog to comment and [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] are some closing words about &quot;real world&quot; math, mostly distilled from your comments on the last post. As with previous investigations, I am indebted to the folks who stop by this blog to comment and [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Real World Math? &#124; MathLab		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1392538</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Real World Math? &#124; MathLab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1392538</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Dear Mathalicious: Which Of These Questions Is “Real World”? [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Dear Mathalicious: Which Of These Questions Is “Real World”? [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Isaac D		</title>
		<link>/2014/dear-mathalicious-fake-world-which-of-these-questions-is-real-world/#comment-1386496</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Isaac D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=18575#comment-1386496</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A. I agree with James Taub&#039;s featured comment.
&quot;Real-world&quot; (whichever definition we use) and &quot;Interesting&quot; are two very different things. Both are objectives that most of us have as teachers of mathematics, and they very often overlap, but they are two different things.

B. My working definition of &quot;real-world&quot; (although I try to avoid the term whenever possible because of it&#039;s ambiguity), would be something like:

Real-world
adj. 
1. (applied to a skill, idea, theory, or procedure) Useful to most people outside the academic discipline from which the skill, idea, or procedure originates.
The Pythagorean Theorem is a real-world theory which is useful in a wide range of contexts outside geometry or mathematics (e.g. architecture, physics, computer science, etc. -- its uses in algebra and trigonometry would not apply because those are within the broad discipline of mathematics).
2. (applied to specific student assignments) Reflects a plausible application of an idea/skill/theory/procedure to a situation outside the discipline in which it originates (e.g. a real-world problem which teaches the Pythagorean theorem must be a believable problem that a non-professional-mathematician would reasonably encounter and try to solve using the theorem and not some other method).

C. None of the above problems qualify as real-world. 

Problems 1 and 2 are definitely interesting, and would be more effective if combined (multiple representations of the same idea). They (especially combined) help me understand the arcane vocabulary of geometry, appreciate the beauty of the relationship between area formulas, and apply algebra in solving a geometry problem (I would probably solve them by setting up the area formulae as a system of equations).

Problem 3 is less interesting to me because it is highly implausible, distracting (why are we putting candy in geometric figures?) and off-putting (you are insulting my intelligence by thinking I will only be interested in geometry if candy is involved).
It is also less effective at teaching geometry because it involves discrete integers which are only loosely related to the formulae for area of a circle and square.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A. I agree with James Taub&#8217;s featured comment.<br />
&#8220;Real-world&#8221; (whichever definition we use) and &#8220;Interesting&#8221; are two very different things. Both are objectives that most of us have as teachers of mathematics, and they very often overlap, but they are two different things.</p>
<p>B. My working definition of &#8220;real-world&#8221; (although I try to avoid the term whenever possible because of it&#8217;s ambiguity), would be something like:</p>
<p>Real-world<br />
adj.<br />
1. (applied to a skill, idea, theory, or procedure) Useful to most people outside the academic discipline from which the skill, idea, or procedure originates.<br />
The Pythagorean Theorem is a real-world theory which is useful in a wide range of contexts outside geometry or mathematics (e.g. architecture, physics, computer science, etc. &#8212; its uses in algebra and trigonometry would not apply because those are within the broad discipline of mathematics).<br />
2. (applied to specific student assignments) Reflects a plausible application of an idea/skill/theory/procedure to a situation outside the discipline in which it originates (e.g. a real-world problem which teaches the Pythagorean theorem must be a believable problem that a non-professional-mathematician would reasonably encounter and try to solve using the theorem and not some other method).</p>
<p>C. None of the above problems qualify as real-world. </p>
<p>Problems 1 and 2 are definitely interesting, and would be more effective if combined (multiple representations of the same idea). They (especially combined) help me understand the arcane vocabulary of geometry, appreciate the beauty of the relationship between area formulas, and apply algebra in solving a geometry problem (I would probably solve them by setting up the area formulae as a system of equations).</p>
<p>Problem 3 is less interesting to me because it is highly implausible, distracting (why are we putting candy in geometric figures?) and off-putting (you are insulting my intelligence by thinking I will only be interested in geometry if candy is involved).<br />
It is also less effective at teaching geometry because it involves discrete integers which are only loosely related to the formulae for area of a circle and square.</p>
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