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	<title>
	Comments on: Developing The Question: Ask For A Sketch First, Ctd.	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:28:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: LMacfarlane		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2213019</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LMacfarlane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2213019</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I should say, my comment assumes that the student&#039;s problems in understanding were significant enough to need scaffolding beyond the initial &quot;So what you&#039;re saying is...&quot; discussion. With my particular students, I found that multi-day scaffolding was often needed for gaps in understanding. Ideally, it&#039;s done without becoming a time-suck.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should say, my comment assumes that the student&#8217;s problems in understanding were significant enough to need scaffolding beyond the initial &#8220;So what you&#8217;re saying is&#8230;&#8221; discussion. With my particular students, I found that multi-day scaffolding was often needed for gaps in understanding. Ideally, it&#8217;s done without becoming a time-suck.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LMacfarlane		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2213004</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LMacfarlane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2213004</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To benefit the student who made no sketch at all, I might collect the graphs at the end of the activity and choose a couple to show the next day. I&#039;d probably choose ones that weren&#039;t quite right, but in different ways. (Sometimes it&#039;s good to address non-understanding without delay, but sometimes it isn&#039;t. There can be an advantage to letting the student try to wrap his brain around it [within your framework] on day one, then coming back to it the next day. The student has struggled, you&#039;ve observed the struggle, there&#039;s been some wait time, and now you&#039;re more prepared for Take Two.)

Next day, I&#039;d start with one of those graphs, and maybe say, &quot;Every point on a line communicates information. For example, THIS VERY POINT says that ...&quot; Have students explain another point, work on interpreting the graph, maybe throw up the second student graph I chose to reinforce the ideas, then move on to another activity to build on these same ideas. Time permitting, of course. (ha ha)

In brief, I&#039;d want to return to the meaning of a point (in context) for a student unable to sketch a graph.

*Unless the student didn&#039;t sketch merely for fear of being wrong, in which case you&#039;re looking at a different kind of problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To benefit the student who made no sketch at all, I might collect the graphs at the end of the activity and choose a couple to show the next day. I&#8217;d probably choose ones that weren&#8217;t quite right, but in different ways. (Sometimes it&#8217;s good to address non-understanding without delay, but sometimes it isn&#8217;t. There can be an advantage to letting the student try to wrap his brain around it [within your framework] on day one, then coming back to it the next day. The student has struggled, you&#8217;ve observed the struggle, there&#8217;s been some wait time, and now you&#8217;re more prepared for Take Two.)</p>
<p>Next day, I&#8217;d start with one of those graphs, and maybe say, &#8220;Every point on a line communicates information. For example, THIS VERY POINT says that &#8230;&#8221; Have students explain another point, work on interpreting the graph, maybe throw up the second student graph I chose to reinforce the ideas, then move on to another activity to build on these same ideas. Time permitting, of course. (ha ha)</p>
<p>In brief, I&#8217;d want to return to the meaning of a point (in context) for a student unable to sketch a graph.</p>
<p>*Unless the student didn&#8217;t sketch merely for fear of being wrong, in which case you&#8217;re looking at a different kind of problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pete Capewell		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2201551</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pete Capewell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2014 10:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2201551</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For me it might be one invitational comment for all: &quot;Okay. Talk me through that...&quot;

This can even work with the Opt Out learner - especially if you unpack and prompt with Polya question stems such as &quot;do you understand the problem?&quot; If that fails to elicit a response, maybe try asking them to talk through someone else&#039;s graph.

It&#039;s important for me to get in the habit of using the same script whether the solution is correct or not - that develops rigour in thinking and learners don&#039;t come to hear &quot;Talk me through that..&quot; as &quot;you&#039;re wrong, but I&#039;ll humor you.&quot;

BTW we *did* ask learners to sketch them on a mini whiteboard *before* the group work or class discussion didn&#039;t we? [Lemov, Take a Stand]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me it might be one invitational comment for all: &#8220;Okay. Talk me through that&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>This can even work with the Opt Out learner &#8211; especially if you unpack and prompt with Polya question stems such as &#8220;do you understand the problem?&#8221; If that fails to elicit a response, maybe try asking them to talk through someone else&#8217;s graph.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important for me to get in the habit of using the same script whether the solution is correct or not &#8211; that develops rigour in thinking and learners don&#8217;t come to hear &#8220;Talk me through that..&#8221; as &#8220;you&#8217;re wrong, but I&#8217;ll humor you.&#8221;</p>
<p>BTW we *did* ask learners to sketch them on a mini whiteboard *before* the group work or class discussion didn&#8217;t we? [Lemov, Take a Stand]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2198470</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2014 03:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2198470</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Could&#039;ve sworn I posted it. Dumb blog comments.

I&#039;d translate a student&#039;s graph back to them in words and ask them if that&#039;s what they wanted to represent.

ie. For A:

&quot;So you&#039;re saying here with one rubber band, the Barbie has fallen a little bit. Is that right?&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could&#8217;ve sworn I posted it. Dumb blog comments.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d translate a student&#8217;s graph back to them in words and ask them if that&#8217;s what they wanted to represent.</p>
<p>ie. For A:</p>
<p>&#8220;So you&#8217;re saying here with one rubber band, the Barbie has fallen a little bit. Is that right?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Noah		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2198446</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Noah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2014 02:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2198446</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So Dan, what is that one question you would ask all four students?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Dan, what is that one question you would ask all four students?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Harry O'Malley		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2196891</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry O'Malley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2014 22:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2196891</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh, and to make things a little more clear, here&#039;s the GeoGebra file with the slider and three segments created in parts 1, 2, and 3.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsofsyyb71h7j1s/BarbieBungee.ggb?dl=0]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and to make things a little more clear, here&#8217;s the GeoGebra file with the slider and three segments created in parts 1, 2, and 3.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsofsyyb71h7j1s/BarbieBungee.ggb?dl=0" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsofsyyb71h7j1s/BarbieBungee.ggb?dl=0</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Harry O'Malley		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2196876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry O'Malley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2014 22:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2196876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[These 4 sketches, plus Dan’s &quot;sketch first&quot; strategy, made me realize that this task is about having kids experience a clear, structured connection between the number of rubber bands and the height of the fall.  So, instead of reacting to these sketches, I redesigned the activity in hopes of focusing it more on that goal.  Here’s the redesign…

Part 1

Have students: 1) create a slider in GeoGebra going from 0 to 12 counting by 1’s; 2) create a vertical line segment of length 2*r+3; 3) slide the slider and describe what is happening; 4) Answer the question: what could this be a model of? Take answers looking for a variety.

Part 2

Have students: 1) create another vertical line segment of length 2*r+6 right next to the original one, noting the change of the constant term from 3 to 6; 2) Slide the slider (which will animate both segments) and answer the question: what effect did changing the 3 to a 6 have?; 3) Answer the question: if this were modeling (pick a phenomena they brought up in step 4 of Part 1), what would the change of 3 to 6 mean in that context?

Part 3

Repeat Part 2, but with a third vertical line segment of length 4*r+3, noting that only the multiplier is different from the original.

Part 4

Introduce the Barbie context and have students do the drop, complete with fall height measurement, with 2 rubber bands so they have the opportunity to see and handle the props in context.  Then explain the connection between the model and the situation.  Specifically tell them two things: 1) The “r” in the expression for the length of the vertical line segment will stand for the number of rubber bands (so right now, r=2); and 2) the length of the line segment represents the distance from the point where the rubber band chain is attached to the support at the top to the tip of Barbie’s head at the bottom of the fall (in whatever units you want, let’s say inches).

Part 5

Have the students slide the slider to r=2 and determine which of the three line segment models predicts the length of the actual fall the closest (none will be very close, likely, especially if you work in millimeters!  The purpose of this part is simply to get them to perceive the fact that different values for the multiplier and constant produce models of better or worse value for predicting the fall height.)  Then challenge them to create a fourth segment, by changing the multiplier and constant, that comes as close as they can.  There will be many strategies here from “playing with different numbers” all the way to making very accurate measurements of Barbie’s height and the length of single stretched rubber bands.

Part 6

Have them use their new and improved models to predict the fall height for 4 rubber bands. Then have them check their model’s effectiveness by actually doing it and seeing.  Have them re-alter their parameters to get their model to make a more accurate prediction for 4 rubber bands without losing much accuracy for 2 bands.

Part 7

Have them repeat this “use your model to predict, then actually do the Barbie drop, then improve your model” procedure with 6, 8, 10, and 12 rubber bands.  By the end, they should have a fairly fine-tuned model.

Part 8

Discuss strategies. In the discussion, bring out the connection between the multiplier and the length of a single rubber band, as well as the constant and the height of Barbie.

Part 9

Do a linear regression fit on the data and compare the student parameters with the ones generated by the fit.

Boom.  There it is.  Oh, and by the way, during the data gathering and function tailoring stages play Hideaway by Kiesza, then Black and White by Parquet Courts then Control by Olympic Ayres (at 70 decibels, cuz that’s what the research says is loud enough to stimulate creativity but not loud enough to distract).  People will be bobbing their heads a little feeling like they’re doing something cool and inventing stuff.

Notice this version still uses Dan’s wisely proposed “sketch first, measure later” strategy, but there are a few key differences here: 1) The “sketch” is a line segment instead of a height vs. time graph.  This is a much less abstract visual representation of the fall and easier to process; 2) The visual properties of the sketch are controlled simultaneously by your hands (sliding the slider with your finger on an iPad) and by mathematical processes (slider values entering into functions and coming out as line segment lengths).  It’s hard to describe how satisfying this is. 3) The strategy is used multiple times throughout the activity instead of once, with immediate feedback following each instance.  This allows students to “carve out” the linear model, slowly fusing their intuitive, informal knowledge about the situation with the formal mathematical notation and measurements.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These 4 sketches, plus Dan’s &#8220;sketch first&#8221; strategy, made me realize that this task is about having kids experience a clear, structured connection between the number of rubber bands and the height of the fall.  So, instead of reacting to these sketches, I redesigned the activity in hopes of focusing it more on that goal.  Here’s the redesign…</p>
<p>Part 1</p>
<p>Have students: 1) create a slider in GeoGebra going from 0 to 12 counting by 1’s; 2) create a vertical line segment of length 2*r+3; 3) slide the slider and describe what is happening; 4) Answer the question: what could this be a model of? Take answers looking for a variety.</p>
<p>Part 2</p>
<p>Have students: 1) create another vertical line segment of length 2*r+6 right next to the original one, noting the change of the constant term from 3 to 6; 2) Slide the slider (which will animate both segments) and answer the question: what effect did changing the 3 to a 6 have?; 3) Answer the question: if this were modeling (pick a phenomena they brought up in step 4 of Part 1), what would the change of 3 to 6 mean in that context?</p>
<p>Part 3</p>
<p>Repeat Part 2, but with a third vertical line segment of length 4*r+3, noting that only the multiplier is different from the original.</p>
<p>Part 4</p>
<p>Introduce the Barbie context and have students do the drop, complete with fall height measurement, with 2 rubber bands so they have the opportunity to see and handle the props in context.  Then explain the connection between the model and the situation.  Specifically tell them two things: 1) The “r” in the expression for the length of the vertical line segment will stand for the number of rubber bands (so right now, r=2); and 2) the length of the line segment represents the distance from the point where the rubber band chain is attached to the support at the top to the tip of Barbie’s head at the bottom of the fall (in whatever units you want, let’s say inches).</p>
<p>Part 5</p>
<p>Have the students slide the slider to r=2 and determine which of the three line segment models predicts the length of the actual fall the closest (none will be very close, likely, especially if you work in millimeters!  The purpose of this part is simply to get them to perceive the fact that different values for the multiplier and constant produce models of better or worse value for predicting the fall height.)  Then challenge them to create a fourth segment, by changing the multiplier and constant, that comes as close as they can.  There will be many strategies here from “playing with different numbers” all the way to making very accurate measurements of Barbie’s height and the length of single stretched rubber bands.</p>
<p>Part 6</p>
<p>Have them use their new and improved models to predict the fall height for 4 rubber bands. Then have them check their model’s effectiveness by actually doing it and seeing.  Have them re-alter their parameters to get their model to make a more accurate prediction for 4 rubber bands without losing much accuracy for 2 bands.</p>
<p>Part 7</p>
<p>Have them repeat this “use your model to predict, then actually do the Barbie drop, then improve your model” procedure with 6, 8, 10, and 12 rubber bands.  By the end, they should have a fairly fine-tuned model.</p>
<p>Part 8</p>
<p>Discuss strategies. In the discussion, bring out the connection between the multiplier and the length of a single rubber band, as well as the constant and the height of Barbie.</p>
<p>Part 9</p>
<p>Do a linear regression fit on the data and compare the student parameters with the ones generated by the fit.</p>
<p>Boom.  There it is.  Oh, and by the way, during the data gathering and function tailoring stages play Hideaway by Kiesza, then Black and White by Parquet Courts then Control by Olympic Ayres (at 70 decibels, cuz that’s what the research says is loud enough to stimulate creativity but not loud enough to distract).  People will be bobbing their heads a little feeling like they’re doing something cool and inventing stuff.</p>
<p>Notice this version still uses Dan’s wisely proposed “sketch first, measure later” strategy, but there are a few key differences here: 1) The “sketch” is a line segment instead of a height vs. time graph.  This is a much less abstract visual representation of the fall and easier to process; 2) The visual properties of the sketch are controlled simultaneously by your hands (sliding the slider with your finger on an iPad) and by mathematical processes (slider values entering into functions and coming out as line segment lengths).  It’s hard to describe how satisfying this is. 3) The strategy is used multiple times throughout the activity instead of once, with immediate feedback following each instance.  This allows students to “carve out” the linear model, slowly fusing their intuitive, informal knowledge about the situation with the formal mathematical notation and measurements.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Painter		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2195254</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Painter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2014 15:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2195254</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Honestly, I don&#039;t know that I would have an ideal here as both could work out very well, it depends on the class and students.    I know that sounds like avoidance, but there are so many different situations that could play out.  I think that student responses to questions regarding what they assumed the y-axis to represent as well as how well individual groups are able to respond to both the initial task and probing would guide my actions as I worked through the lesson.  Maybe it is just me, but it always seems as though my most rigid type of plans, the ones where I have a plan that I really want to push, seem to go the worst.

As a teacher, convergence can be easier and quicker but if we can get twice as many miles out of the same lesson by making our jobs a tad more difficult, seems like a worthy trade off (not that I think this is possible with all classes).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, I don&#8217;t know that I would have an ideal here as both could work out very well, it depends on the class and students.    I know that sounds like avoidance, but there are so many different situations that could play out.  I think that student responses to questions regarding what they assumed the y-axis to represent as well as how well individual groups are able to respond to both the initial task and probing would guide my actions as I worked through the lesson.  Maybe it is just me, but it always seems as though my most rigid type of plans, the ones where I have a plan that I really want to push, seem to go the worst.</p>
<p>As a teacher, convergence can be easier and quicker but if we can get twice as many miles out of the same lesson by making our jobs a tad more difficult, seems like a worthy trade off (not that I think this is possible with all classes).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2195142</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2014 13:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2195142</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your thoughts, &lt;strong&gt;Chris&lt;/strong&gt;. Quick assumptions check: in your ideal lesson here are students using different frames of reference on the y-axis or do they all converge at a certain point?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts, <strong>Chris</strong>. Quick assumptions check: in your ideal lesson here are students using different frames of reference on the y-axis or do they all converge at a certain point?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Painter		</title>
		<link>/2014/developing-the-question-ask-for-a-sketch-first-ctd/#comment-2194441</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Painter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2014 01:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=21272#comment-2194441</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Completely agree with the premise that students need to try and predict what the graph will look like first.  I used to make the mistake of not having students do this while teaching basic trig graphs... like you said, much more robotic and far less interesting discussion.  Having said this, I can&#039;t help but question whether we would be judging these graphs prematurely.  In the last post, you said that asking them to sketch a graph will help lead to a clarification of the problem, particularly the variables.  If such clarification has yet to be done, can we say that graphs B and C are inaccurate?  It seems to me that having such graphs come up before clearly defining the variables could be beneficial as it paves the way for some awesome questions.  One such question, &quot;could you determine circumstances under which each graph could be right?&quot;  Granted, this convo. may need to be postponed until afterward or as an extension for some classes, but others could handle it up front I think.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely agree with the premise that students need to try and predict what the graph will look like first.  I used to make the mistake of not having students do this while teaching basic trig graphs&#8230; like you said, much more robotic and far less interesting discussion.  Having said this, I can&#8217;t help but question whether we would be judging these graphs prematurely.  In the last post, you said that asking them to sketch a graph will help lead to a clarification of the problem, particularly the variables.  If such clarification has yet to be done, can we say that graphs B and C are inaccurate?  It seems to me that having such graphs come up before clearly defining the variables could be beneficial as it paves the way for some awesome questions.  One such question, &#8220;could you determine circumstances under which each graph could be right?&#8221;  Granted, this convo. may need to be postponed until afterward or as an extension for some classes, but others could handle it up front I think.</p>
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