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	Comments on: Mathematical Surprise	</title>
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		<title>
		By: rene		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434809</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2017 21:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434809</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Couple of thoughts:
1) Yes, we don&#039;t always know the level of student understanding...of course you couldn&#039;t know Jan&#039;s, but in our classrooms I am afraid sometimes I might have under or overestimated individual students&#039; ability.  
2) Developing curiosity is another word I&#039;d use here, adding to yours. It&#039;s really combo. 
3) Both of the above fit within Dynamic Skill Theory and Perceptual Control Theory. 
4) Teachers can&#039;t leave out the rest of the room to focus on the Jans, and they can&#039;t leave out the Jans to focus on the rest of the room.  Letting her &quot;not&quot; engage for that very brief bit of time was helpful.  In PK-12, teachers monitor that BRIEF disengagement to ensure students are &quot;still there&quot; - students don&#039;t HAVE to be &quot;visibly engaged&quot; to actually BE engaged. LOTS of times I have sat in classes and thought, &quot;Yeah, I don&#039;t get any of this!&quot; but I am still interested and still trying to hook onto something.  I doubt very seriously that you would have left her in that disengaged state. Sometimes we don&#039;t actually know what to do in any given moment, that&#039;s where wait time comes in. (And checking back in later!)
5.Growth Mindset? Well, I can&#039;t read your mind, but I think you have a growth mindset. You believe people are capable of succeeding in math, given the right environment, scaffolding (yes, I used that word), and headache. It&#039;s different for teachers who just dismiss the Jans and figure, yeah, she&#039;s out of there, I&#039;ll just focus on the others. As for Jan...we can&#039;t read her mind, but her behavior tells me she has a growth mindset because she continued to listen (in silence) even when her physical behaviors showed something different. If she had started texting, got up and left...gave up...that tells you something.  It MAY tell you she doesn&#039;t have a growth mindset, it might also tell you that she had a really bad night&#039;s sleep, didn&#039;t get her coffee, her dog chewed her favorite boots and she is more concerned about that than this little math exercise and so her interest AT THAT MOMENT isn&#039;t enough to try to play along. Though, given her comments about 2nd grade, I&#039;d say she has a lack of confidence.  Lack of confidence is not the same thing as not having a growth mindset. GM isn&#039;t that simple (as psychology isn&#039;t that simple); not binary, and it&#039;s highly contextual. Each small success builds on another. Growth Mindset is really tackling cognitive distortions, and being realistic. I can say and even act upon the belief that I have the ability to do &quot;x&quot; - but if I don&#039;t have the skills necessary, I&#039;m going to need those first! AND, I have to want to do it.  I love to ski.  I &quot;own&quot; the bunny hill and greens on several ski areas in NM and CO.  I COULD ski blues and blacks IF I WANTED TO. I&#039;d have to exercise to build leg strength, I&#039;d have to get over my fear of heights, I&#039;d have to feel unsatisfied with my current ability...I&#039;m not willing or interested in doing any of that.  I am happy where I am.  But, I don&#039;t face negative life outcomes because I give in. Understanding math has implications for life outcomes. It&#039;s our job to monitor and support the growth mindset of our students.  That&#039;s WAY more than a cute poster on the wall or verbal encouragement. It&#039;s giving them the chance to experience growth so they know what that feels like! The dopamine release will provide a great environment to seek out more like experiences! (And, for the record, I&#039;d say you just experienced a bit of your own medicine...now your interested in what happened to Jan. You did weird math, debriefed, and now your thinking about what you need to do weird math together (in different PD environments) next time.  Pretty much, did you ever have a day in teaching where you did&#039;t learn something? I didn&#039;t. So, that last one...you aren&#039;t ever going to know for sure because you won&#039;t know your audience. Adult learners are just like kid learners, just older. What if Jan hadn&#039;t been there that day, how would you have evaluated that particular PD? What would you have done similar or different next time?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couple of thoughts:<br />
1) Yes, we don&#8217;t always know the level of student understanding&#8230;of course you couldn&#8217;t know Jan&#8217;s, but in our classrooms I am afraid sometimes I might have under or overestimated individual students&#8217; ability.<br />
2) Developing curiosity is another word I&#8217;d use here, adding to yours. It&#8217;s really combo.<br />
3) Both of the above fit within Dynamic Skill Theory and Perceptual Control Theory.<br />
4) Teachers can&#8217;t leave out the rest of the room to focus on the Jans, and they can&#8217;t leave out the Jans to focus on the rest of the room.  Letting her &#8220;not&#8221; engage for that very brief bit of time was helpful.  In PK-12, teachers monitor that BRIEF disengagement to ensure students are &#8220;still there&#8221; &#8211; students don&#8217;t HAVE to be &#8220;visibly engaged&#8221; to actually BE engaged. LOTS of times I have sat in classes and thought, &#8220;Yeah, I don&#8217;t get any of this!&#8221; but I am still interested and still trying to hook onto something.  I doubt very seriously that you would have left her in that disengaged state. Sometimes we don&#8217;t actually know what to do in any given moment, that&#8217;s where wait time comes in. (And checking back in later!)<br />
5.Growth Mindset? Well, I can&#8217;t read your mind, but I think you have a growth mindset. You believe people are capable of succeeding in math, given the right environment, scaffolding (yes, I used that word), and headache. It&#8217;s different for teachers who just dismiss the Jans and figure, yeah, she&#8217;s out of there, I&#8217;ll just focus on the others. As for Jan&#8230;we can&#8217;t read her mind, but her behavior tells me she has a growth mindset because she continued to listen (in silence) even when her physical behaviors showed something different. If she had started texting, got up and left&#8230;gave up&#8230;that tells you something.  It MAY tell you she doesn&#8217;t have a growth mindset, it might also tell you that she had a really bad night&#8217;s sleep, didn&#8217;t get her coffee, her dog chewed her favorite boots and she is more concerned about that than this little math exercise and so her interest AT THAT MOMENT isn&#8217;t enough to try to play along. Though, given her comments about 2nd grade, I&#8217;d say she has a lack of confidence.  Lack of confidence is not the same thing as not having a growth mindset. GM isn&#8217;t that simple (as psychology isn&#8217;t that simple); not binary, and it&#8217;s highly contextual. Each small success builds on another. Growth Mindset is really tackling cognitive distortions, and being realistic. I can say and even act upon the belief that I have the ability to do &#8220;x&#8221; &#8211; but if I don&#8217;t have the skills necessary, I&#8217;m going to need those first! AND, I have to want to do it.  I love to ski.  I &#8220;own&#8221; the bunny hill and greens on several ski areas in NM and CO.  I COULD ski blues and blacks IF I WANTED TO. I&#8217;d have to exercise to build leg strength, I&#8217;d have to get over my fear of heights, I&#8217;d have to feel unsatisfied with my current ability&#8230;I&#8217;m not willing or interested in doing any of that.  I am happy where I am.  But, I don&#8217;t face negative life outcomes because I give in. Understanding math has implications for life outcomes. It&#8217;s our job to monitor and support the growth mindset of our students.  That&#8217;s WAY more than a cute poster on the wall or verbal encouragement. It&#8217;s giving them the chance to experience growth so they know what that feels like! The dopamine release will provide a great environment to seek out more like experiences! (And, for the record, I&#8217;d say you just experienced a bit of your own medicine&#8230;now your interested in what happened to Jan. You did weird math, debriefed, and now your thinking about what you need to do weird math together (in different PD environments) next time.  Pretty much, did you ever have a day in teaching where you did&#8217;t learn something? I didn&#8217;t. So, that last one&#8230;you aren&#8217;t ever going to know for sure because you won&#8217;t know your audience. Adult learners are just like kid learners, just older. What if Jan hadn&#8217;t been there that day, how would you have evaluated that particular PD? What would you have done similar or different next time?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pam Harris		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434706</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pam Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2017 14:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434706</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434623&quot;&gt;Vince Hoover&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;span class=&quot;featuredtext&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Yowza. Solid PD outline.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;featuredcomment&quot;&gt;I add to/tweak Dan&#039;s three steps in my PD a) do intriguing math together,  
b) congress about the intriguing math toward a mathematical end to grow teachers&#039; content 
c) ask teachers to predict what students would do with the task (They can&#039;t do this! We just struggled/had more prior knowledge/like math and we struggled!), 
d) watch students do the same task with an experience teacher mentoring student mathematicians, 
e) debrief the experience, 
f) ask participants to predict what the video teacher should/could do NEXT to continue building the student mathematicians (ie. one surprise does not change everything nor teach all the math) 
g) then offer a possible next move, 
h) debrief - how to sequence multiple entry-multiple exit tasks so that all students continue to learn, are stretched, are intrigued (at least enough). 
Rinse and repeat.&lt;/div&gt;

For me - it&#039;s about sequencing tasks to mentor student mathematicians (it&#039;s not about discovering, it&#039;s about building mental relationships they can use to solve problems) and it&#039;s about sequencing PD tasks to mentor teachers. 
Dan&#039;s sequence in this example is worth studying.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434623">Vince Hoover</a>.</p>
<p><span class="featuredtext"><em>Yowza. Solid PD outline.</em></span></p>
<div class="featuredcomment">I add to/tweak Dan&#8217;s three steps in my PD a) do intriguing math together,<br />
b) congress about the intriguing math toward a mathematical end to grow teachers&#8217; content<br />
c) ask teachers to predict what students would do with the task (They can&#8217;t do this! We just struggled/had more prior knowledge/like math and we struggled!),<br />
d) watch students do the same task with an experience teacher mentoring student mathematicians,<br />
e) debrief the experience,<br />
f) ask participants to predict what the video teacher should/could do NEXT to continue building the student mathematicians (ie. one surprise does not change everything nor teach all the math)<br />
g) then offer a possible next move,<br />
h) debrief &#8211; how to sequence multiple entry-multiple exit tasks so that all students continue to learn, are stretched, are intrigued (at least enough).<br />
Rinse and repeat.</div>
<p>For me &#8211; it&#8217;s about sequencing tasks to mentor student mathematicians (it&#8217;s not about discovering, it&#8217;s about building mental relationships they can use to solve problems) and it&#8217;s about sequencing PD tasks to mentor teachers.<br />
Dan&#8217;s sequence in this example is worth studying.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434692</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2017 06:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434692</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434623&quot;&gt;Vince Hoover&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Vince, thanks for the note. I&#039;d love to help out with your PD efforts. Frankly the only work I&#039;ve ever done that seems to resonate with teachers has involved the same three-step process every time: a) do weird math together, b) debrief the math to decide what made it weird, c) decide what we&#039;d need in order to start being weird in our own practice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434623">Vince Hoover</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Vince, thanks for the note. I&#8217;d love to help out with your PD efforts. Frankly the only work I&#8217;ve ever done that seems to resonate with teachers has involved the same three-step process every time: a) do weird math together, b) debrief the math to decide what made it weird, c) decide what we&#8217;d need in order to start being weird in our own practice.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Vince Hoover		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434623</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vince Hoover]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2017 16:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434623</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dan, 
I appreciate your story about creating an intellectual need in students. This is desperately needed to create students who have a healthy disposition for math and for learning.  Often we kill their curiosity to math by not creating a need first.  I experienced this lesson just like Jan did when I saw you at NCTM last year.  

Do you have recommendations for sharing this idea of intellectual need with more teachers?  I provide professional development for area schools and would love to share this message with teachers who do not attend conferences or don&#039;t read your blog. Do you have examples of teachers creating intellectual need so that I can inspire more teachers?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,<br />
I appreciate your story about creating an intellectual need in students. This is desperately needed to create students who have a healthy disposition for math and for learning.  Often we kill their curiosity to math by not creating a need first.  I experienced this lesson just like Jan did when I saw you at NCTM last year.  </p>
<p>Do you have recommendations for sharing this idea of intellectual need with more teachers?  I provide professional development for area schools and would love to share this message with teachers who do not attend conferences or don&#8217;t read your blog. Do you have examples of teachers creating intellectual need so that I can inspire more teachers?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434601</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 May 2017 04:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434601</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434592&quot;&gt;Scott Farrand&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for your thoughts here, Scott. Your comment brings to mind &lt;a href=&quot;/2015/wtf-math-problems/&quot;&gt;a session of yours at CMC North&lt;/a&gt; that expanded on these ideas significantly. I need to revisit my notes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434592">Scott Farrand</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts here, Scott. Your comment brings to mind <a href="/2015/wtf-math-problems/">a session of yours at CMC North</a> that expanded on these ideas significantly. I need to revisit my notes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434600</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 May 2017 04:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434600</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434565&quot;&gt;Sue Thuma&lt;/a&gt;.

This is super helpful analysis, Sue. Thanks for sharing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434565">Sue Thuma</a>.</p>
<p>This is super helpful analysis, Sue. Thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Scott Farrand		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434592</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Farrand]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2017 20:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434592</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am not at all sure that a single experience with a surprise can have a significant effect on having a growth mindset.  But I do believe that thoughtful repeated use of surprises can change what students believe about what they can do with mathematics.  

Perhaps the most inviting reason to use surprises is to get students to pursue the question you want them to consider.  Everyone enjoys a puzzle, IF they think that they can figure it out and IF they then are successful.  People like to feel clever.  And feeling clever builds mathematical confidence.  
It isn’t so easy to find problems that create useful surprises, but the more you use them, the more students respond.  I want students to gradually build their belief that they CAN figure out whatever weird thing they encounter in my classroom.  There’s a crucial unspoken agreement here that I learned from Rick West — I won’t give them a puzzle that they don’t have the means to solve.  I want students to progress to the point where they see the surprise and then say something like, “Don’t tell me, I want to figure this out.”  You can watch individual students progress in their mathematical confidence in the way that they respond to surprises.  I do think that this is related to having a growth mindset.

Jan might be someone whose prior experience with puzzles has provided her with some confidence, some belief that this surprise was worth pursuing, even though it was outside of her area of subject matter confidence.  The set-up to the problem might have worried her that the talk had prerequisites that she didn’t meet, but the puzzle drew her in.  

One more thought here:  I would like to try the same set-up to the problem (perhaps they should choose a whole number between 0 and 4) and go through the same process, except have the students plug their chosen numbers into the polynomial that is the expanded form of 
x(x-1)(x-2)(x-3)(x-4).  
For students at just the right place in their understanding of polynomials, this could lead nicely to an investigation of the relationship between zeroes and linear factors of polynomials.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not at all sure that a single experience with a surprise can have a significant effect on having a growth mindset.  But I do believe that thoughtful repeated use of surprises can change what students believe about what they can do with mathematics.  </p>
<p>Perhaps the most inviting reason to use surprises is to get students to pursue the question you want them to consider.  Everyone enjoys a puzzle, IF they think that they can figure it out and IF they then are successful.  People like to feel clever.  And feeling clever builds mathematical confidence.<br />
It isn’t so easy to find problems that create useful surprises, but the more you use them, the more students respond.  I want students to gradually build their belief that they CAN figure out whatever weird thing they encounter in my classroom.  There’s a crucial unspoken agreement here that I learned from Rick West — I won’t give them a puzzle that they don’t have the means to solve.  I want students to progress to the point where they see the surprise and then say something like, “Don’t tell me, I want to figure this out.”  You can watch individual students progress in their mathematical confidence in the way that they respond to surprises.  I do think that this is related to having a growth mindset.</p>
<p>Jan might be someone whose prior experience with puzzles has provided her with some confidence, some belief that this surprise was worth pursuing, even though it was outside of her area of subject matter confidence.  The set-up to the problem might have worried her that the talk had prerequisites that she didn’t meet, but the puzzle drew her in.  </p>
<p>One more thought here:  I would like to try the same set-up to the problem (perhaps they should choose a whole number between 0 and 4) and go through the same process, except have the students plug their chosen numbers into the polynomial that is the expanded form of<br />
x(x-1)(x-2)(x-3)(x-4).<br />
For students at just the right place in their understanding of polynomials, this could lead nicely to an investigation of the relationship between zeroes and linear factors of polynomials.</p>
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		<title>
		By: danny		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434591</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[danny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2017 20:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434591</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434553&quot;&gt;danny&lt;/a&gt;.

You&#039;re right. 

We can&#039;t under-value either, because they are not mutually exclusive. But let us assume for argument&#039;s sake that they are. Would a teacher be better off devoid of sound pedagogy and yet solid psychology, or vice versa? 

I could take a group to the moon without pedagogy, but would sink without psychology.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434553">danny</a>.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right. </p>
<p>We can&#8217;t under-value either, because they are not mutually exclusive. But let us assume for argument&#8217;s sake that they are. Would a teacher be better off devoid of sound pedagogy and yet solid psychology, or vice versa? </p>
<p>I could take a group to the moon without pedagogy, but would sink without psychology.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Hartzer		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434584</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Hartzer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2017 13:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434584</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434539&quot;&gt;Paul Hartzer&lt;/a&gt;.

Chester, I sometimes explicitly say something like, &quot;I don&#039;t expect you to understand this particular explanation right now. It&#039;s based on calculus, which you&#039;ll be formally meeting in a later class. But I&#039;m offering it so that you know that it does work, that there&#039;s reasoning behind these mechanisms.&quot;

I think you and I are probably closer to being on the same page then we&#039;re acting. I had some excellent teachers in my day that explained mechanisms, and I had some teachers who just taught the mechanisms.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434539">Paul Hartzer</a>.</p>
<p>Chester, I sometimes explicitly say something like, &#8220;I don&#8217;t expect you to understand this particular explanation right now. It&#8217;s based on calculus, which you&#8217;ll be formally meeting in a later class. But I&#8217;m offering it so that you know that it does work, that there&#8217;s reasoning behind these mechanisms.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you and I are probably closer to being on the same page then we&#8217;re acting. I had some excellent teachers in my day that explained mechanisms, and I had some teachers who just taught the mechanisms.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Koen Vanhoutte		</title>
		<link>/2017/mathematical-surprise/#comment-2434578</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Koen Vanhoutte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2017 08:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26740#comment-2434578</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[More of a question, rather than a comment:
Something markedly changed in your description of Jan&#039;s behavior between first contact with the long phrase and the discovery that all of them equal 0, no matter the input.

I find it hard to believe that what changed is the belief in her capacity to solve this problem.

&lt;span class=&quot;featuredtext&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Love this line.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;featuredcomment&quot;&gt;Rather, what seemed to have been a surprise to Jan is that she was - against everything she expected - interested.&lt;/div&gt;

It seems she did not necessarily overcome any anxiety or aversion, but rather temporarily disregarded it in pursuit of something worthwhile. This creates a portal, allowing you or her a crack at building a growth mindset, ability, etc.

I think pedagogy is the science of generating and inviting as many such moments as possible.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More of a question, rather than a comment:<br />
Something markedly changed in your description of Jan&#8217;s behavior between first contact with the long phrase and the discovery that all of them equal 0, no matter the input.</p>
<p>I find it hard to believe that what changed is the belief in her capacity to solve this problem.</p>
<p><span class="featuredtext"><em>Love this line.</em></span></p>
<div class="featuredcomment">Rather, what seemed to have been a surprise to Jan is that she was &#8211; against everything she expected &#8211; interested.</div>
<p>It seems she did not necessarily overcome any anxiety or aversion, but rather temporarily disregarded it in pursuit of something worthwhile. This creates a portal, allowing you or her a crack at building a growth mindset, ability, etc.</p>
<p>I think pedagogy is the science of generating and inviting as many such moments as possible.</p>
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