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	Comments on: Pomegraphit &#038; How Desmos Designs Activities	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:27:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Dick Fuller		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2439146</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dick Fuller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2439146</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2439095&quot;&gt;Ross Ludwig&lt;/a&gt;.

Why not a circle centered at the origin? Both the x = sqrt(1-y^2), same for y, coordinates are singular at +1 and -1, and hence  difficult to evaluate by hand. Just try to evaluate sqrt(1 - x^2) near x = 1.

All you need for polar coordinates is a compass and a ruler to fix the radius, and  blank sheet of paper.

The practical  computer approach hides the difficulty in Cartesian coordinates by numerical evaluation of power series expansions of the circular functions (sin and cos). For graphics the pixel map is generally Cartesian and polar coordinates are mapped to it. 

Your question brings out a nice collection of math, computation, and technology. Thanks to Dan for providing the forum.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2439095">Ross Ludwig</a>.</p>
<p>Why not a circle centered at the origin? Both the x = sqrt(1-y^2), same for y, coordinates are singular at +1 and -1, and hence  difficult to evaluate by hand. Just try to evaluate sqrt(1 &#8211; x^2) near x = 1.</p>
<p>All you need for polar coordinates is a compass and a ruler to fix the radius, and  blank sheet of paper.</p>
<p>The practical  computer approach hides the difficulty in Cartesian coordinates by numerical evaluation of power series expansions of the circular functions (sin and cos). For graphics the pixel map is generally Cartesian and polar coordinates are mapped to it. </p>
<p>Your question brings out a nice collection of math, computation, and technology. Thanks to Dan for providing the forum.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2439138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2439138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Ross, thanks for the query. We don&#039;t have anything like that currently, but we&#039;ll talk about it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ross, thanks for the query. We don&#8217;t have anything like that currently, but we&#8217;ll talk about it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ross Ludwig		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2439095</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ross Ludwig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2017 18:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2439095</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I love this. I&#039;m wondering if you have any ideas of a light context or a full lesson that might present in such a way that would make Cartesian coordinates difficult and drive students to discover the polar system.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this. I&#8217;m wondering if you have any ideas of a light context or a full lesson that might present in such a way that would make Cartesian coordinates difficult and drive students to discover the polar system.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Katrin		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2436094</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katrin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2436094</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435610&quot;&gt;Katrin&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Dan, thank you very much for your answer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435610">Katrin</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Dan, thank you very much for your answer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: rachel defelice		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435771</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rachel defelice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2017 14:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2435771</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just recently found your blog and am planning on using demos for a few projects this fall in a class I teach. I am a high school math teacher in MN and teach College Alg/Trig this fall. Love your blog and ideas about coordinate plane, I will definitely be using some of these ideas for a graphing project we will do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just recently found your blog and am planning on using demos for a few projects this fall in a class I teach. I am a high school math teacher in MN and teach College Alg/Trig this fall. Love your blog and ideas about coordinate plane, I will definitely be using some of these ideas for a graphing project we will do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435698</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jul 2017 05:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2435698</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435610&quot;&gt;Katrin&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for the questions, Katrin.

&lt;blockquote&gt;How much does the understanding of your students of coordinate systems improve by teaching them with the Pomegraphit method rather than teaching the regular way?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I haven&#039;t run any specific study comparing this approach to introducing the coordinate plane with any other. I tend to a) draw inspiration from the Freudenthalian work on &quot;progressive formalisation,&quot; and also from the fact that I can always add the numeric coordinate plane. But I can&#039;t subtract it once it&#039;s added.

&lt;blockquote&gt;How do you arrange the transition from this method to using numbers?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I give them a single fruit on the coordinate plane. I ask them to &quot;send a text message to a friend that precisely describes the location of that fruit.&quot; They find it challenging. They rely on imprecise language. Then I add a grid to the plane and ask them to repeat the exercise. They feel something like relief. The grid is a tool to enhance their communication. They still tend to say things like &quot;four left and three down,&quot; which I need to help them formalize to (-4,-3).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435610">Katrin</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for the questions, Katrin.</p>
<blockquote><p>How much does the understanding of your students of coordinate systems improve by teaching them with the Pomegraphit method rather than teaching the regular way?</p></blockquote>
<p>I haven&#8217;t run any specific study comparing this approach to introducing the coordinate plane with any other. I tend to a) draw inspiration from the Freudenthalian work on &#8220;progressive formalisation,&#8221; and also from the fact that I can always add the numeric coordinate plane. But I can&#8217;t subtract it once it&#8217;s added.</p>
<blockquote><p>How do you arrange the transition from this method to using numbers?</p></blockquote>
<p>I give them a single fruit on the coordinate plane. I ask them to &#8220;send a text message to a friend that precisely describes the location of that fruit.&#8221; They find it challenging. They rely on imprecise language. Then I add a grid to the plane and ask them to repeat the exercise. They feel something like relief. The grid is a tool to enhance their communication. They still tend to say things like &#8220;four left and three down,&#8221; which I need to help them formalize to (-4,-3).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Katrin		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435610</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katrin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2017 18:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2435610</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hey Dan,
I am an educational studies student from Munich and I am currently participating in a seminar about teaching Math in English. I just found your blog and I really like your method of teaching the coordinate systems. But I’ve got a few questions.
How much does the understanding of your students of coordinate systems improve by teaching them with the Pomegraphit method rather than teaching the regular way?
Do you use this method only to introduce the topic?
How do you arrange the transition from this method to using numbers?
I look forward to your reactions
Katrin]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dan,<br />
I am an educational studies student from Munich and I am currently participating in a seminar about teaching Math in English. I just found your blog and I really like your method of teaching the coordinate systems. But I’ve got a few questions.<br />
How much does the understanding of your students of coordinate systems improve by teaching them with the Pomegraphit method rather than teaching the regular way?<br />
Do you use this method only to introduce the topic?<br />
How do you arrange the transition from this method to using numbers?<br />
I look forward to your reactions<br />
Katrin</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dick Fuller		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435117</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dick Fuller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2435117</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As per request, here is an attempt to clarify my thoughts. I&#039;d like to hear reactions.

It is difficult to understand mathematics, but it is one of the few ways students can see a large payoff from the struggle to understand. Using undefined variables as coordinates, displayed or not, is deception. Mathematics resides in the graph of the quantitative relation of  measures of two fruit attributes, but I cannot see a way to measure or derive numbers for coordinates of undefined variables, and hence they are not quantitative. They are opinion. 
Why do I think  this is important?
Mathematics is a glimpse of both the difficulty and the possibility of understanding. Circumventing aspects that make it so leaves unique opportunities on the table. Students also need to see how the appearance of mathematics is used to lend undeserved weight to arguments.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As per request, here is an attempt to clarify my thoughts. I&#8217;d like to hear reactions.</p>
<p>It is difficult to understand mathematics, but it is one of the few ways students can see a large payoff from the struggle to understand. Using undefined variables as coordinates, displayed or not, is deception. Mathematics resides in the graph of the quantitative relation of  measures of two fruit attributes, but I cannot see a way to measure or derive numbers for coordinates of undefined variables, and hence they are not quantitative. They are opinion.<br />
Why do I think  this is important?<br />
Mathematics is a glimpse of both the difficulty and the possibility of understanding. Circumventing aspects that make it so leaves unique opportunities on the table. Students also need to see how the appearance of mathematics is used to lend undeserved weight to arguments.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Meyer		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435104</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Meyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 22:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2435104</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435096&quot;&gt;Ian Frame&lt;/a&gt;.

Love it. Similar to David&#039;s suggestion about variance, this probably deserves its own lesson.

I gave it a shot a long time in &lt;a href=&quot;/2007/how-i-met-your-mother/&quot;&gt;a lesson I regret for obvious reasons of sexism and objectifications&lt;/a&gt;, but I still like the illustration of the coordinate plane&#039;s value. The dot plots don&#039;t reveal anything all that interesting by themselves, but when you plot them &lt;em&gt;against&lt;/em&gt; each other, the association &lt;em&gt;pops&lt;/em&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435096">Ian Frame</a>.</p>
<p>Love it. Similar to David&#8217;s suggestion about variance, this probably deserves its own lesson.</p>
<p>I gave it a shot a long time in <a href="/2007/how-i-met-your-mother/">a lesson I regret for obvious reasons of sexism and objectifications</a>, but I still like the illustration of the coordinate plane&#8217;s value. The dot plots don&#8217;t reveal anything all that interesting by themselves, but when you plot them <em>against</em> each other, the association <em>pops</em>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dick Fuller		</title>
		<link>/2017/pomegraphit-how-desmos-designs-activities/#comment-2435099</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dick Fuller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 14:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26806#comment-2435099</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It may be useful to realize there is another direction to be explored here, and that is the attention that should be paid to the use of undefined variables. All of us need to think about the use of &quot;apparent mathematics&quot; in explanation or illustration. Characterization of fruit with undefined variables is probably harmless, but the use of apparent mathematics it illustrates is not. 

&lt;span class=&quot;featuredtext&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Exciting title!&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;featuredcomment&quot;&gt;Now is a good time to think about graphical &quot;tricks&quot; with apparent mathematics in information display. For a good case study I suggest following the google trail of &quot;Mathematics as Propaganda&quot; by Neil Koblitz to Serge Lang and Samuel Huntington.&lt;/div&gt;

It takes you back to 60&#039;s to see mathematics playing the star role in the real world. The issues it raises on the use of mathematics are still relevant in the application of social science to education.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be useful to realize there is another direction to be explored here, and that is the attention that should be paid to the use of undefined variables. All of us need to think about the use of &#8220;apparent mathematics&#8221; in explanation or illustration. Characterization of fruit with undefined variables is probably harmless, but the use of apparent mathematics it illustrates is not. </p>
<p><span class="featuredtext"><em>Exciting title!</em></span></p>
<div class="featuredcomment">Now is a good time to think about graphical &#8220;tricks&#8221; with apparent mathematics in information display. For a good case study I suggest following the google trail of &#8220;Mathematics as Propaganda&#8221; by Neil Koblitz to Serge Lang and Samuel Huntington.</div>
<p>It takes you back to 60&#8217;s to see mathematics playing the star role in the real world. The issues it raises on the use of mathematics are still relevant in the application of social science to education.</p>
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