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	Comments on: You Can&#8217;t Break Math	</title>
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	<description>less helpful</description>
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		By: The Difference Between Math and Modeling with Math in Five Seconds &#8211; dy/dan		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432757</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Difference Between Math and Modeling with Math in Five Seconds &#8211; dy/dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2017 01:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432757</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] You can&#8217;t break math. Some people think they broke math but all they did was break ground on new disciplines in math where, for example, triangles can have more than 180Â° and parallel lines can meet. [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] You can&#8217;t break math. Some people think they broke math but all they did was break ground on new disciplines in math where, for example, triangles can have more than 180Â° and parallel lines can meet. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Hartzer		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432305</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Hartzer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 18:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432305</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432298&quot;&gt;Dick Fuller&lt;/a&gt;.

Now I think I&#039;m talking myself into &quot;counterbalance&quot; instead of &quot;neutralize&quot;. Interesting side note: &quot;Algebra&quot; is probably best translated as &quot;restoring&quot;, although there&#039;s disagreement on that... which would support &quot;undo&quot;. ;)

As Corey suggests, I think the important thing is that we&#039;re being mindful about our word choice and making sure we understand why we&#039;re saying what we&#039;re saying.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432298">Dick Fuller</a>.</p>
<p>Now I think I&#8217;m talking myself into &#8220;counterbalance&#8221; instead of &#8220;neutralize&#8221;. Interesting side note: &#8220;Algebra&#8221; is probably best translated as &#8220;restoring&#8221;, although there&#8217;s disagreement on that&#8230; which would support &#8220;undo&#8221;. ;)</p>
<p>As Corey suggests, I think the important thing is that we&#8217;re being mindful about our word choice and making sure we understand why we&#8217;re saying what we&#8217;re saying.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Corey Andreasen		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432302</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Corey Andreasen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 17:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432302</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There have also been some pretty strong arguments FOR using the word cancel. I had never encountered anyone using that word thoughtfully, so I was against the word. I&#039;d only seen it used in a rather lazy &#039;slang&#039; fashion. But, like so many things in mathematics, if we are clear about what we mean, the word may not be so bad! Interesting discussion, everyone!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There have also been some pretty strong arguments FOR using the word cancel. I had never encountered anyone using that word thoughtfully, so I was against the word. I&#8217;d only seen it used in a rather lazy &#8216;slang&#8217; fashion. But, like so many things in mathematics, if we are clear about what we mean, the word may not be so bad! Interesting discussion, everyone!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Hartzer		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Hartzer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 16:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432298&quot;&gt;Dick Fuller&lt;/a&gt;.

This is the most cogent argument against &quot;cancel&quot; that I&#039;ve read. However, I still don&#039;t like &quot;undo&quot; because it implies that we&#039;ve actually done something (when we may not have).

My rebuttal is that &quot;cancel&quot; is ambiguous and CAN mean &quot;to neutralize the effect&quot;, but it&#039;s a fair point that some if not most students don&#039;t see it that way.

How about: &quot;When we apply the inverse operation, we neutralize the values&quot;? I want a word that describes what we&#039;re doing -- cancelling, neutralizing, counterbalancing, offsetting. If &quot;cancel&quot; has problems, let&#039;s find a word that doesn&#039;t.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432298">Dick Fuller</a>.</p>
<p>This is the most cogent argument against &#8220;cancel&#8221; that I&#8217;ve read. However, I still don&#8217;t like &#8220;undo&#8221; because it implies that we&#8217;ve actually done something (when we may not have).</p>
<p>My rebuttal is that &#8220;cancel&#8221; is ambiguous and CAN mean &#8220;to neutralize the effect&#8221;, but it&#8217;s a fair point that some if not most students don&#8217;t see it that way.</p>
<p>How about: &#8220;When we apply the inverse operation, we neutralize the values&#8221;? I want a word that describes what we&#8217;re doing &#8212; cancelling, neutralizing, counterbalancing, offsetting. If &#8220;cancel&#8221; has problems, let&#8217;s find a word that doesn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dick Fuller		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432298</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dick Fuller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432298</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I assert: mathematics is powerful because it can work without leading to word wars. I can define words to mean what I need them to mean. Definitions must ultimately refer to mathematical objects whose meaning I can know is shared by those I am addressing. That started with the whole number system which we understand in terms of its arithmetic based on counting.

The problem with &quot;cancel&quot; is, in its usage, it appears to describe some changes on the paper where we keeping tract of the arithmetic we do.  It refers to &quot;marks-on-paper&quot; objects not mathematical ones, rather like cancelling keeps track of postage in a mail process. &quot;Cancel&quot;refers to the account we are keeping of the arithmetic process, not to the mathematics in that process. We will fight about the accounting of it, but the mathematics itself need not be a war of words.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assert: mathematics is powerful because it can work without leading to word wars. I can define words to mean what I need them to mean. Definitions must ultimately refer to mathematical objects whose meaning I can know is shared by those I am addressing. That started with the whole number system which we understand in terms of its arithmetic based on counting.</p>
<p>The problem with &#8220;cancel&#8221; is, in its usage, it appears to describe some changes on the paper where we keeping tract of the arithmetic we do.  It refers to &#8220;marks-on-paper&#8221; objects not mathematical ones, rather like cancelling keeps track of postage in a mail process. &#8220;Cancel&#8221;refers to the account we are keeping of the arithmetic process, not to the mathematics in that process. We will fight about the accounting of it, but the mathematics itself need not be a war of words.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Susan Jones		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432283</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2017 19:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432283</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In my experience, cancel has more meaning to students than &quot;apply the inverse&quot; ... but not a good meaning.   I usually start with their language, though, and encourage them to build meaning.  So, &quot;Yes, that &#039;cancels&#039; because it adds up to zero,&quot; or &quot;cancels because we&#039;re multiplying by one now&quot;....and working to build mathematical meaning. 
I also encourage the &quot;would that work with real numbers?&quot; strategy for figuring out if things will work with variables...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience, cancel has more meaning to students than &#8220;apply the inverse&#8221; &#8230; but not a good meaning.   I usually start with their language, though, and encourage them to build meaning.  So, &#8220;Yes, that &#8216;cancels&#8217; because it adds up to zero,&#8221; or &#8220;cancels because we&#8217;re multiplying by one now&#8221;&#8230;.and working to build mathematical meaning.<br />
I also encourage the &#8220;would that work with real numbers?&#8221; strategy for figuring out if things will work with variables&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Hartzer		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432163</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Hartzer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2017 02:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432163</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have nothing more to add at this point, except I wish people would stop misusing &quot;begs the question.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have nothing more to add at this point, except I wish people would stop misusing &#8220;begs the question.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Corey Andreasen		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432162</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Corey Andreasen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2017 02:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432162</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432121&quot;&gt;Paul Hartzer&lt;/a&gt;.

When students say &quot;cancel&quot; it means &quot;cross things out.&quot; In my experience they are not thinking of anything remotely mathematical. Things just disappear. When you say &quot;apply the inverse&quot; they have to think about what that means. It begs the question &quot;Inverse of what?&quot; So they must think about the operation they are inverting. That&#039;s thinking mathematically. 

I suppose you could teach them to think &quot;cancel&quot; that way, making them think about why things &quot;cancel&quot; but (again, in my experience) that&#039;s not generally what&#039;s done and it&#039;s not generally how students think of it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432121">Paul Hartzer</a>.</p>
<p>When students say &#8220;cancel&#8221; it means &#8220;cross things out.&#8221; In my experience they are not thinking of anything remotely mathematical. Things just disappear. When you say &#8220;apply the inverse&#8221; they have to think about what that means. It begs the question &#8220;Inverse of what?&#8221; So they must think about the operation they are inverting. That&#8217;s thinking mathematically. </p>
<p>I suppose you could teach them to think &#8220;cancel&#8221; that way, making them think about why things &#8220;cancel&#8221; but (again, in my experience) that&#8217;s not generally what&#8217;s done and it&#8217;s not generally how students think of it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Corey Andreasen		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432160</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Corey Andreasen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2017 02:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432160</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432121&quot;&gt;Paul Hartzer&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432121">Paul Hartzer</a>.</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: thaslam		</title>
		<link>/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2432136</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thaslam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=26271#comment-2432136</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2431977&quot;&gt;Dan Meyer&lt;/a&gt;.

We just started getting into inverse Trig Functions.  I think its interesting how some students readily accept it as an extension of &quot;cancellation&quot; (ex: asin(sin(A))=A ) while others insist on an &quot;inverse&quot; interpretation (ex: sin(Angle)=Ratio -&#062; asin(Ratio)=Angle ).  And there are those who are uncomfortable with either interpretation, even though they seem perfectly capable of solving things like 3x+2=8 or x^3=8-&#062;cuberoot(8)=x.

And then there&#039;s e^(ln(x))=x  ...that was one &quot;cancellation&quot; I always felt uncomfortable about as a student.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="/2017/you-cant-break-math/#comment-2431977">Dan Meyer</a>.</p>
<p>We just started getting into inverse Trig Functions.  I think its interesting how some students readily accept it as an extension of &#8220;cancellation&#8221; (ex: asin(sin(A))=A ) while others insist on an &#8220;inverse&#8221; interpretation (ex: sin(Angle)=Ratio -&gt; asin(Ratio)=Angle ).  And there are those who are uncomfortable with either interpretation, even though they seem perfectly capable of solving things like 3x+2=8 or x^3=8-&gt;cuberoot(8)=x.</p>
<p>And then there&#8217;s e^(ln(x))=x  &#8230;that was one &#8220;cancellation&#8221; I always felt uncomfortable about as a student.</p>
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